Dave ...pleased to hear from you. Sounds like you are our kind of guy. Where
are you located at specifically?
I have copied you on what we loosely regards as Field Reps....as well as the
entire list...as it provides a nice profile of your intentions
Your "Field Rep" in the Pacific Northwest is Bill Babcock who races a TR3 and
the famous Peyote, a special contructed by Bill Ames in the late 50s. He will
make an excellent contact for you
I assume you have visited our website FOT-Race.com
I can share with what I have done with my TR4 1963 CT15008L, but there are
so many ways of doing things. I am mid pack (or a bit better) runner with
reliability on my mind. My formula has worked quite well for me as I have
never experienced a DNF in 8 years. However, others will likely make
offerings far superior to mine.
BTW, If Bill Babcock elects to run Bremerton (Outside of Seattle) the last of
July, I hope to meet him there. Perhaps you could meet us there as well.
I will submit your name to the FOT list as I assume you are not on it
already.
Mark B, please add Dave Talbott dtalbott@archreproduction.com
See my fill in text below with your note
<< Dear Joe:
I am in the process of finishing the restoration of a solid axle 1963
TR 4 that has been a racecar in the Pacific NW since it was new. I own the
car now for the second time, having first purchased it from it's builder in
1968. I originally raced the car for three seasons at Westwood (a now
defunct track near Vancouver BC), since at the time I was a minor and SCCA
then had a minimum age requirement of 21. I sold the car in the 70's and it
was raced by several subsequent owners until sometime in the 80's.
My current ownership of the car came as the result of the last owners
finding my name in some of the paperwork and going through the Portland,
Oregon phone book looking for a Dave Talbott that may have once owned such a
vehicle. I was able to fill in the two owners (who were restoring the car
as a vintage racer) on some of the history and provide them with some early
photos. Apparently their partnership and/or the project itself was getting
a little stale as they contacted me last year with an interest in selling
their TR 4 holdings, lock, stock and barrel.
So, here I sit with a pile of Triumph goodies, somewhat in need of advice
and counsel, especially as regards chassis and suspension work. Actually, I
am the owner of several piles of Triumph goodies, as I also have a (very)
unreconstructed TR 3 that ran in the first National Championship event at
Riverside. My interest is in finishing the TR 4 (it is probably at about
75% now) in a style typical of the late 60's. I think the prior owners have
done an adequate job of reinforcing the pickup points and in bushing things
appropriately; my primary quest is in coming up with current directions on
various issues related to handling.
I must admit to some degree of confusion over the ultimate goal of
this
process, this being my first venture into vintage racing after many years of
garden variety SCCA club racing. I keep reminding myself that the objective
is not necessarily to achieve the lowest lap time through a creative
interpretation of the rulebook. I am interested in doing what I can within
the spirit of the vintage rules to improve the handling of the car and make
it enjoyable to drive. I am not concerning with wringing the last few
tenth's out of it. My questions are as follows:
Springs:
Rates, heights, and spacer arrangements for fronts
MGBGT springs are available at 480 and 520 and set the ride height very well.
Rates, Configuration, spacers and attachments of rears
My springs are stock...some add a leaf...I have lowering block that sets the
rear down about 1/2" lower than the front. Heard Tullius did this but have
not confirmed. I found off of the shelf brass bushings that fit the rear
shackles. Ken Gillanders has what he calls a Rear Positioning Kit and it is
being used by several folks.
Ride heights and rake (and how to best achieve, esp. in the rear)
I have never measured :-) but it feels right...otherwise see above.
Shocks:
Type and valving adjustment (if any) for fronts
I run Spax to full setting
Options for rears. I have recently seen a historic listing of a factory
telescopic shock option for TR 4's which I was not familiar with. I have
also seen a reference to modified lever action units being supplied by
Racetorations in England. I seem to recall a optional valve/spring having
been available in the 60's along with the suggestion to fill 'em with STP.
I run lever shocks with valves from MGB front levers and put heavy duty
motorcylce fork shock oil in.
Tires:
Brand and construction
Hoosier Bias...some other sanctioning bodies allow radials
Size
5.50-15
Pressures
28 front 26 rear
Wheels:
Width
5.5-15 American Mag look alikes
Offset
Unknown but they fit
Spacers (Legal?)
I use 1/2" spacers
Sway bars:
Front size and attachments
Addco 3/4" , I think...with poly bushings...no heim joints
Rear size and attachments
Rear Addco disabled and like to come off....the axle with Quaife seems to
respond better with a little more movement of the axle to keep it on the
asphalt
Rear axle control:
Traction rods
Installed and removed as they did not seem to be needed.
Watts linkage or similar location device - I have seen a reference
to a product from Racetorations that looks interesting - have you any
information on dealing with them?
Installed lateral locator, but not sure that it is needed. Again, Ken
Gillanders of British Frame and Engine can help and Racetoration is one of
his suppliers. Not to make this a commercial message, there are several folks
on our list who specialize in parts and pieces and they will pop up and help
you.
Set ups:
Camber
Revised the upper control arms to 1.5-2.0 degrees and found this quite
satisfactory
Caster
Per factory "0"
Toe
Per race suspension shop...very slight toe out....1/8" perhaps.
Corner weight objectives
I weighed the car and corners, but have no real objectives :-)
Track widths
See above remarks
Any general thoughts on the effects of things like tire design, body and
frame rigidity or differential types on any of the above? It is my plan to
stick with a fairly traditional approach to tires and roll bar design - I do
not expect the bar installation to do much to stiffen the platform.
I had stock car tube frame constructor do my my roll cage...along with
safety...I am very pleased with the addition of the stiffer frame platform. I
think it trully added to the handling of the car and confidence in the car.
Do it, in my opinion. Although I do not have cage extended to extreme front
of rear...it is a tidy installation that includes underdash hoop and side
intrusion bars.
I've also spent enough money on one-race tires to last for several lifetimes,
thank you, so I'm leaning towards something fairly durable and vintage in
height for tires.
I have been know to dumpster dive for the Porsche guys castoff tires :-)
If there is one thing I have come to hold as sacred about "handling"
in
the years since I first had this car, it is the importance of balancing
components, especially in the area of tires/springs/shocks. Again, I am not
nearly as concerned with ultimate speed as much as I am achieving a good
balanced assembly. I'm also not very inclined towards a development process
since I don't want to take the time - I want to be using my laps to race
rather than fiddle. I'm probably not cut out for that sort of work anyway,
since I tend to adjust my technique to drive around problems rather than
actually working out proper solutions.
I ended up with a package that gives me very slight understeer under quite
fast conditions at the Carousel at Road America. I am very pleased and
confident in the car...I quit development work after about three years of
development and have been known to forget my can of Go-Jo at home. Sounds
like you are on the same mission as I am.
Best Regards,
Joe Alexander
319.266.6044
Cedar Falls, Iowa 50613
Looking back over this I realize I have asked a great deal - I guess after
reading about your Triumph group on the website, I have hoped I might
stumble upon a guru or two who not only know all, but wish to talk about it.
If you are the guy for any or all of this, or can point me in other
directions, I would greatly appreciate it. If the telephone would be any
easier for this, I can be reached at my office at (503) 284-8007 or at home
at (503) 224-9515.
Thanks for your interest,
Dave Talbott
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