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I would say the shaft is too thin for high revs, the oil bore is a =
stress riser exactly placed on the spot with the highest load. Prone to =
brake on high revs.
The rods foot is too massive for a racing rod.=20
Too thin on top, too fat on the bottom.
An A shaped I-beam would have been better and leaving out the oil bore.
=20
Von: Chuck Arnold and/or Kathleen Kelley [mailto:triosan@gmail.com]=20
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. Juli 2015 20:15
An: MadMarx
Betreff: Re: [Fot] FW: Racing rod design
=20
How would you categorize stock TR rod design?
=20
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:15 PM, MadMarx <tr4racing@googlemail.com> =
wrote:
Hi Bob,
I'm sorry to worry you, that wasn't my intention.
But maths doesn't lie. Must be a reason why high volume car producer =
make all rods of the same pattern. It would be a lot cheaper to make =
them a square type or Carrillo H-beam typ then the I-beam version you =
find in all cars. I-beam is the best pattern to handle the forces in an =
piston engine.
Cheers
Chris
-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von =
rkramer3@austin.rr.com
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. Juli 2015 00:32
An: Marcel Van Mulders
Cc: fot@autox.team.net
Betreff: Re: [Fot] FW: Racing rod design
Marcel.
I had a spectacular blow up at Mosport one year, in front of Kas and the =
whole FOT gang. Those were the last stock rods I ever used. LAter I went =
to the Moldex and other than a crack in a journal on a crank on a Moldex =
after running it too hard and hitting 8 grand a few times, I have =
avoided breakage. I prefer it that way and now I am concerned about =
those Pauters I bought. Thanks Chris!
Bob Kramer
rkramer3@austin.rr.com
---- Marcel Van Mulders <van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be> wrote:
> Bob,
> That makes things clear.
> I still use the Carrillo's that I bought when I startet racing my TR3A
> in 2002. About everything broke once or more, except those Carrillo's.
> The original Triumph conrods can fail, but probably Carrillo and also
> Pauter rods have an easy time in our racecars?
> Marcel
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: rkramer3@austin.rr.com [mailto:rkramer3@austin.rr.com]
> Verzonden: woensdag 22 juli 2015 22:32
> Aan: Marcel Van Mulders; 'MadMarx'
> CC: fot@autox.team.net
> Onderwerp: Re: FW: [Fot] Racing rod design
>
> Marcel,
>
> Those are Carillo's on a TR spec Moldex crank spinning Wieseco =
pistons.
>
> I did buy some Pauters but they are in another engine and haven't been
> tested as hard as the Carillos. I still have a TR4 race car that my
> son drives and the Pauters are in that engine. It has a camshaft of
> unknown origin that builds power between 2500- 5500.
>
> Bob Kramer
> rkramer3@austin.rr.com
>
> ---- Marcel Van Mulders <van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be> wrote:
> >
> >
> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> > Van: Marcel Van Mulders [mailto:van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be]
> > Verzonden: woensdag 22 juli 2015 19:29
> > Aan: 'MadMarx'
> > Onderwerp: RE: [Fot] Racing rod design
> >
> > Hi Chris and Bob,
> > As you know, I bought Bob's TR4A and I did have a look at the rods :
> > Pauter may call these rods X-beam but they actually are H-beam rods,
> > much the same design as the H-beam rods of Carrillo. (b.t.w.
> > Carrillo's I beam rods are less expensive than their H-beam one's).
> > Marcel
> >
> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> > Van: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] Namens MadMarx
> > Verzonden: dinsdag 21 juli 2015 21:39
> > Aan: 'FOT'
> > Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] Racing rod design
> >
> > Hi Bob,
> >
> > from engineer basis x-beam are the worst you can get. I'll never get
> > a clue how someone could imagine this design.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Chris
> >
> > -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: rkramer3@austin.rr.com [mailto:rkramer3@austin.rr.com]
> > Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. Juli 2015 21:31
> > An: 'FOT'; MadMarx
> > Betreff: Re: [Fot] Racing rod design
> >
> >
> > =
Chris,http://webmail.roadrunner.com/do/mail/message/reply?msgId=3DINBO
> > XD
> > ELIM68
> > 586&replyAll=3Don&referrer=3Dmsg#
> >
> > Look at Pauter Rods. they advertise their design as an x-beam. I
> > can't say that they are any better based on long term use but a lot
> > of us switched over due to the increase cost of Carillo's over time.
> >
> > http://pauter.com/parts/rods/
> >
> > It just occured to me that you are probably running a custom crank,
> > Chevy rods with custom pistons to match. They may make comparable
> > models to fit that too since I believe that setup was designed
> > around the
> rods.
> >
> > =
http://webmail.roadrunner.com/do/mail/message/reply?msgId=3DINBOXDELIM
> > 68
> > 586&re
> > plyAll=3Don&referrer=3Dmsg#
> > Bob Kramer
> > rkramer3@austin.rr.com
> >
> > ---- MadMarx <tr4racing@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi Guys,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > After my engine blow at the last race and a rod in two pieces I
> > investigated about rod design.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In US forums I found an interesting opinion:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > H-beam rods are for low rev high torque engine (turbo, compressor)
> > >
> > > I-beam are for medium torque engines with high revs
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As engineer I agree with this statement. On high revs the rod
> > > shaft gets
> > bended back and forth by the inertia caused by the rotation.
> > >
> > > I could imagine that the sharp sides of the H-beam rod will create
> > > a crack
> > after a while because the stiffness for bending along the rotation
> > axis smaller than with an I-beam rod.
> > >
> > > That means to me that the fatigue resistance is smaller on an
> > > H-beam rod
> > at high revs.
> > >
> > > With high revs on a long stroke engine I mean 6000+.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The manufacturer of the broken H-beam rod was Scat.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I think next time I order an I-beam rod from Scat.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > What do you think?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > fot@autox.team.net
> >
> > http://www.fot-racing.com
> >
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/van.mulders.marcel@telenet
> > .b
> > e
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing@googlemail.com
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/triosan@gmail.com
=20
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DDE link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I would say the shaft is too thin for high revs, the oil bore is a =
stress riser exactly placed on the spot with the highest load. Prone to =
brake on high revs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The rods foot is too massive for a racing rod. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Too thin on top, too fat on the bottom.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>An A shaped I-beam would have been better and leaving out the oil =
bore.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Von:</span><=
/b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Chuck Arnold and/or Kathleen Kelley [mailto:triosan@gmail.com] =
<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Donnerstag, 23. Juli 2015 20:15<br><b>An:</b> =
MadMarx<br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Fot] FW: Racing rod =
design<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>How =
would you categorize stock TR rod =
design?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Wed, =
Jul 22, 2015 at 11:15 PM, MadMarx <<a =
href=3D"mailto:tr4racing@googlemail.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">tr4racing@googlemail.com</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Hi Bob,<br><br>I'm sorry to worry you, =
that wasn't my intention.<br>But maths doesn't lie. Must be a reason why =
high volume car producer make all rods of the same pattern. It would be =
a lot cheaper to make them a square type or Carrillo H-beam typ then the =
I-beam version you find in all cars. I-beam is the best pattern to =
handle the forces in an piston =
engine.<br><br>Cheers<br>Chris<br><br><br>-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche =
Nachricht-----<br>Von: Fot [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net";>fot-bounces@autox.team.net</a>=
] Im Auftrag von <a =
href=3D"mailto:rkramer3@austin.rr.com";>rkramer3@austin.rr.com</a><br>Gese=
ndet: Donnerstag, 23. Juli 2015 00:32<br>An: Marcel Van Mulders<br>Cc: =
<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a><br>Betreff: =
Re: [Fot] FW: Racing rod design<br><br>Marcel.<br><br>I had a =
spectacular blow up at Mosport one year, in front of Kas and the whole =
FOT gang. Those were the last stock rods I ever used. LAter I went to =
the Moldex and other than a crack in a journal on a crank on a Moldex =
after running it too hard and hitting 8 grand a few times, I have =
avoided breakage. I prefer it that way and now I am concerned about =
those Pauters I bought. Thanks Chris!<br><br>Bob Kramer<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:rkramer3@austin.rr.com";>rkramer3@austin.rr.com</a><br><br>=
---- Marcel Van Mulders <<a =
href=3D"mailto:van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be";>van.mulders.marcel@telenet.=
be</a>> wrote:<br>> Bob,<br>> That makes things =
clear.<br>> I still use the Carrillo's that I bought when I startet =
racing my TR3A<br>> in 2002. About everything broke once or more, =
except those Carrillo's.<br>> The original Triumph conrods can fail, =
but probably Carrillo and also<br>> Pauter rods have an easy time in =
our racecars?<br>> Marcel<br>><br>> -----Oorspronkelijk =
bericht-----<br>> Van: <a =
href=3D"mailto:rkramer3@austin.rr.com";>rkramer3@austin.rr.com</a> =
[mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:rkramer3@austin.rr.com";>rkramer3@austin.rr.com</a>]<br>>=
; Verzonden: woensdag 22 juli 2015 22:32<br>> Aan: Marcel Van =
Mulders; 'MadMarx'<br>> CC: <a =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a><br>> =
Onderwerp: Re: FW: [Fot] Racing rod design<br>><br>> =
Marcel,<br>><br>> Those are Carillo's on a TR spec Moldex crank =
spinning Wieseco pistons.<br>><br>> I did buy some Pauters but =
they are in another engine and haven't been<br>> tested as hard as =
the Carillos. I still have a TR4 race car that my<br>> son drives and =
the Pauters are in that engine. It has a camshaft of<br>> unknown =
origin that builds power between 2500- 5500.<br>><br>> Bob =
Kramer<br>> <a =
href=3D"mailto:rkramer3@austin.rr.com";>rkramer3@austin.rr.com</a><br>>=
<br>> ---- Marcel Van Mulders <<a =
href=3D"mailto:van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be";>van.mulders.marcel@telenet.=
be</a>> wrote:<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > =
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----<br>> > Van: Marcel Van Mulders =
[mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be";>van.mulders.marcel@telenet.=
be</a>]<br>> > Verzonden: woensdag 22 juli 2015 19:29<br>> > =
Aan: 'MadMarx'<br>> > Onderwerp: RE: [Fot] Racing rod =
design<br>> ><br>> > Hi Chris and Bob,<br>> > As you =
know, I bought Bob's TR4A and I did have a look at the rods :<br>> =
> Pauter may call these rods X-beam but they actually are H-beam =
rods,<br>> > much the same design as the H-beam rods of Carrillo. =
(b.t.w.<br>> > Carrillo's I beam rods are less expensive than =
their H-beam one's).<br>> > Marcel<br>> ><br>> > =
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----<br>> > Van: Fot [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net";>fot-bounces@autox.team.net</a>=
] Namens MadMarx<br>> > Verzonden: dinsdag 21 juli 2015 =
21:39<br>> > Aan: 'FOT'<br>> > Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] Racing =
rod design<br>> ><br>> > Hi Bob,<br>> ><br>> > =
from engineer basis x-beam are the worst you can get. I'll never =
get<br>> > a clue how someone could imagine this design.<br>> =
><br>> > Cheers<br>> > Chris<br>> ><br>> > =
-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Nachricht-----<br>> > Von: <a =
href=3D"mailto:rkramer3@austin.rr.com";>rkramer3@austin.rr.com</a> =
[mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:rkramer3@austin.rr.com";>rkramer3@austin.rr.com</a>]<br>>=
; > Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. Juli 2015 21:31<br>> > An: 'FOT'; =
MadMarx<br>> > Betreff: Re: [Fot] Racing rod design<br>> =
><br>> ><br>> > Chris,<a =
href=3D"http://webmail.roadrunner.com/do/mail/message/reply?msgId=3DINBO"=
=
target=3D"_blank">http://webmail.roadrunner.com/do/mail/message/reply?msg=
Id=3DINBO</a><br>> > XD<br>> > ELIM68<br>> > =
586&replyAll=3Don&referrer=3Dmsg#<br>> ><br>> > Look =
at Pauter Rods. they advertise their design as an x-beam. I<br>> > =
can't say that they are any better based on long term use but a =
lot<br>> > of us switched over due to the increase cost of =
Carillo's over time.<br>> ><br>> > <a =
href=3D"http://pauter.com/parts/rods/"; =
target=3D"_blank">http://pauter.com/parts/rods/</a><br>> ><br>> =
> It just occured to me that you are probably running a custom =
crank,<br>> > Chevy rods with custom pistons to match. They may =
make comparable<br>> > models to fit that too since I believe that =
setup was designed<br>> > around the<br>> rods.<br>> =
><br>> > <a =
href=3D"http://webmail.roadrunner.com/do/mail/message/reply?msgId=3DINBOX=
DELIM" =
target=3D"_blank">http://webmail.roadrunner.com/do/mail/message/reply?msg=
Id=3DINBOXDELIM</a><br>> > 68<br>> > 586&re<br>> > =
plyAll=3Don&referrer=3Dmsg#<br>> > Bob Kramer<br>> > <a =
href=3D"mailto:rkramer3@austin.rr.com";>rkramer3@austin.rr.com</a><br>>=
><br>> > ---- MadMarx <<a =
href=3D"mailto:tr4racing@googlemail.com";>tr4racing@googlemail.com</a>>=
wrote:<br>> > > Hi Guys,<br>> > ><br>> > =
><br>> > ><br>> > > After my engine blow at the =
last race and a rod in two pieces I<br>> > investigated about rod =
design.<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> =
> > In US forums I found an interesting opinion:<br>> > =
><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > H-beam rods =
are for low rev high torque engine (turbo, compressor)<br>> > =
><br>> > > I-beam are for medium torque engines with high =
revs<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > =
> As engineer I agree with this statement. On high revs the =
rod<br>> > > shaft gets<br>> > bended back and forth by =
the inertia caused by the rotation.<br>> > ><br>> > > =
I could imagine that the sharp sides of the H-beam rod will =
create<br>> > > a crack<br>> > after a while because the =
stiffness for bending along the rotation<br>> > axis smaller than =
with an I-beam rod.<br>> > ><br>> > > That means to me =
that the fatigue resistance is smaller on an<br>> > > H-beam =
rod<br>> > at high revs.<br>> > ><br>> > > With =
high revs on a long stroke engine I mean 6000+.<br>> > =
><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > The =
manufacturer of the broken H-beam rod was Scat.<br>> > =
><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > I think next =
time I order an I-beam rod from Scat.<br>> > ><br>> > =
><br>> > ><br>> > > What do you think?<br>> > =
><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > =
Cheers<br>> > ><br>> > > Chris<br>> > =
><br>> ><br>> > =
_______________________________________________<br>> > <a =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a><br>> =
><br>> > <a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>> ><br>> =
> Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>> > =
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive"; =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>> > Forums: =
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target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>> > =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/van.mulders.marcel@tele=
net" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/van.mulders.m=
arcel@telenet</a><br>> > .b<br>> > e<br>> ><br>> =
><br>> ><br>> =
><br>><br>><br>><br><br>_____________________________________=
__________<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a><br><br><a =
href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; =
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