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*re: "Methanol[sic] lowers the boiling point ..." Typo?*
Have I got that wrong Bob?
*"Following the crude oil price shocks of the 1970=E2=80=99s, methanol blen=
ds for
use in the onroadvehicle fleet began extensive studies in the later 1970=E2=
=80=99s
and the 1980=E2=80=99s. Based onthis early research, methanol blends contai=
ning up
to 15 vol% (M15) were successfullyoperated by automakers or oil companies
in a number of large vehicle fleet trials (~ 1000 vehicles each) in Sweden,
Germany, New Zealand and China during thattime. Also during that time
period, methanol gasoline blends containing as much as 5 vol% with
co-solvent alcohols werecommercially introduced in Europe and the U.S.A.
Because carburetted fuel systems with older elastomer parts were part
ofvehicle fleets on the road at that time and had limited ability to
handled high oxygen content in the fuel, the fully commercialmethanol
blends were generally limited to 3 to 5 vol% of the gasoline blend with
some co-solvents also added to provide fuelstability. However, with today=
=E2=80=99s
modern pressurised fuel injector systems using feedback control loops and
also using moreadvance fuel system materials, current experience suggests
that methanol blends as high as 15 vol% (M15) of the gasolineblend with
adequate co-solvents and corrosion inhibitors can now be successfully used
in today=E2=80=99s more modern vehicles inuse today. Many provinces in Chin=
a have
been commercially using M15 blends as early as 2005, and China=E2=80=99s M1=
5 use
hasbeen expanding because of very favourable economics compared to higher
cost petroleum fuels."*
M
On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 11:03 AM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
> re: "Methanol[sic] lowers the boiling point ..."
>
> Typo?
>
>
> On 5/6/2021 6:51 AM, Michael Salter wrote:
>
> Hi Ken, yes I think everyone with a 100 has encountered fuel delivery
> issues with modern fuels. Methanol lowers the boiling point of petrol to =
a
> point where it becomes a problem.
> With the 100 there are 2 distinct issues.
>
> Firstly, because the fuel pump and its associated lines are directly abov=
e
> the exhaust pipe, hot air heats them. The fuel in the suction side of the
> pump has, effectively, a lower boiling point than it would at atmospheric
> pressure. This fuel tends to boil if there isn't sufficient air circulati=
on
> to keep the pump and lines cooled, as occurs while stopped in traffic on =
a
> hot day. True vapor lock occurs because the pump will not pump sufficien=
t
> volume of vapour to exceed the rate of its production by the boiling
> process.
>
> Secondly the carburetor float chambers and the small fuel passage to the
> jet are very close to the exhaust manifold.
> The manifold radiates lots of heat which heats them. Again when the car i=
s
> moving at a reasonable pace the incoming air through the grille and aroun=
d
> the radiator is sufficient to maintain the carburetor at a low enough
> temperature to prohibit boiling but, again when stopped in traffic this
> doesn't happen.
>
> I have managed to eliminate the first problem by installing a insulating
> sleeve from a modern car's AC hose over the fuel line from the tank to th=
e
> pump.
>
> For the second I have made small heatshields from 24 gauge galvanized
> steel to shield as much as possible of the carburetors from the radiated
> heat. This has helped considerably but not completely eliminated the
> problem.
>
> For the most part neither of these modifications are visible and I have
> found that fuel delivery issues, although not completely eliminated, are
> manageable.
> I am considering installing a small blower and duct sourcing air from
> behind the grille to see how much difference that makes but if course tha=
t
> will be visible.
> Hope that helps, others may have found better solutions.
>
> M
>
>
> On Mon., May 3, 2021, 2:58 p.m. Ken Fleming, <ahmg@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Michael , I thought you maybe have experience this ans have a solution .
>> On my Bn1 which is M spec with carbs, advance distributed, LeMans Cam an=
d
>> Pistons has always suffered from what I call vapor lock of gas. Especial=
ly
>> in hot weather .
>> I am assuming the heat is from
>> Manifold and it placement near carbs or fuel pump/ battery near exhaust
>> play a role but I could be wrong . I have asked other owners and they se=
em
>> most of them not to have same problem. I do have a heat sheild added wit=
h
>> little result.
>> I am at a loss as to
>> What to do
>> Next , but have you experienced this and have any suggestions. Are my
>> assumptions
>> Correct on heat causing the issue. Could today=E2=80=99s quality if gas=
be a
>> issue?
>> I recall reading this was a common issue for 100=E2=80=99s to have vapor=
issues.
>> Ken
>>
>>
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--0000000000008b550305c1bd007b
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:small">
<b><i>re: "Methanol[sic] lowers the boiling point ..."<br>
<br>
Typo?</i></b><span class=3D"gmail-im"><br>
</span>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:=
arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">Have I got that wrong Bob?</div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">=
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small"><i>"Following the crude oil price shocks of the 197=
0=E2=80=99s, methanol blends for use in the onroad<br>vehicle fleet began e=
xtensive studies in the later 1970=E2=80=99s and the 1980=E2=80=99s. Based =
on<br>this early research, methanol blends containing up to 15 vol% (M15) w=
ere successfully<br>operated by automakers or oil companies in a number of =
large vehicle fleet trials (<br>~ 1000 vehicles each) in Sweden, Germany, N=
ew Zealand and China during that<br>time. Also during that time period, met=
hanol gasoline blends containing as much as 5 vol% with co-solvent alcohols=
were<br>commercially introduced in Europe and the U.S.A. Because carburett=
ed fuel systems with older elastomer parts were part of<br>vehicle fleets o=
n the road at that time and had limited ability to handled high oxygen cont=
ent in the fuel, the fully commercial<br>methanol blends were generally lim=
ited to 3 to 5 vol% of the gasoline blend with some co-solvents also added =
to provide fuel<br>stability. However, with today=E2=80=99s modern pressuri=
sed fuel injector systems using feedback control loops and also using more<=
br>advance fuel system materials, current experience suggests that methanol=
blends as high as 15 vol% (M15) of the gasoline<br>blend with adequate co-=
solvents and corrosion inhibitors can now be successfully used in today=E2=
=80=99s more modern vehicles in<br>use today. Many provinces in China have =
been commercially using M15 blends as early as 2005, and China=E2=80=99s M1=
5 use has<br>been expanding because of very favourable economics compared t=
o higher cost petroleum fuels."</i></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small"><i><br></i></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:s=
mall">M<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:small"><i></i></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 11:03 AM Bob =
Spidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";>bspidell@comcast.net</a=
>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
=20
=20
=20
<div>
re: "Methanol[sic] lowers the boiling point ..."<br>
<br>
Typo?<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 5/6/2021 6:51 AM, Michael Salter
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
=20
<div dir=3D"auto">Hi Ken, yes I think everyone with a 100 has
encountered fuel delivery issues with modern fuels. Methanol
lowers the boiling point of petrol to a point where it becomes a
problem.=C2=A0
<div dir=3D"auto">With the 100 there are 2 distinct issues.=C2=A0</=
div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Firstly, because the fuel pump and its
associated lines are directly above the exhaust pipe, hot air
heats them. The fuel in the suction side of the pump has,
effectively, a lower boiling point than it would at
atmospheric pressure. This fuel tends to boil if there isn't
sufficient air circulation to keep the pump and lines cooled,
as occurs while stopped in traffic on a hot day. True vapor
lock occurs because the pump will not pump=C2=A0 sufficient volum=
e
of vapour to exceed the rate of its production by the boiling
process.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Secondly the carburetor float chambers and the
small fuel passage to the jet are very close to the exhaust
manifold.=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">The manifold radiates lots of heat which heats
them. Again when the car is moving at a reasonable pace the
incoming air through the grille and around the radiator is
sufficient to maintain the carburetor at a low enough
temperature to prohibit boiling but, again when stopped in
traffic this doesn't happen.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I have managed to eliminate the first problem by
installing a insulating sleeve from a modern car's AC hose
over the fuel line from the tank to the pump.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">For the second I have made small heatshields
from 24 gauge galvanized steel to shield as much as possible
of the carburetors from the radiated heat. This has helped
considerably but not completely eliminated the problem.=C2=A0</di=
v>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">For the most part neither of these modifications
are visible and I have found that fuel delivery issues,
although not completely eliminated, are manageable.=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I am considering installing a small blower and
duct sourcing air from behind the grille to see how much
difference that makes but if course that will be visible.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Hope that helps, others may have found better
solutions.=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon., May 3, 2021, 2:58
p.m. Ken Fleming, <<a href=3D"mailto:ahmg@aol.com"; target=3D"_=
blank">ahmg@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Michael , I
thought you maybe have experience this ans have a solution .
On my Bn1 which is M spec with carbs, advance distributed,
LeMans Cam and Pistons has always suffered from what I call
vapor lock of gas. Especially in hot weather . <br>
I am assuming the heat is from<br>
Manifold and it placement near carbs or fuel pump/ battery
near exhaust play a role but I could be wrong . I have asked
other owners and they seem most of them not to have same
problem. I do have a heat sheild added with little result.<br>
I am at a loss as to<br>
What to do<br>
Next , but have you experienced this and have any suggestions.
Are my assumptions<br>
Correct on heat causing the issue.=C2=A0 Could today=E2=80=99s qu=
ality if
gas be a issue?<br>
I recall reading this was a common issue for 100=E2=80=99s to hav=
e
vapor issues. <br>
Ken<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
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