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Welcome to my world. That is around the normal price of fuel here in the UK=
.
Alan - from my iPad
> On 7 May 2021, at 17:47, WILLIAM B LAWRENCE <YNOTINK@msn.com> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> During my jaunt to the west coast meet in Parksville, BC in 2012 I indulge=
d in a tank of Premium non-ethanol fuel. As I recall it was priced by the li=
ter and calculated to about $6.50 per gallon. The car loved it. The card, no=
t so much...
> From: Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Bob Spidell <b=
spidell@comcast.net>
> Sent: Friday, May 7, 2021 1:41 PM
> To: Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
> Cc: Healeys@autox.team.net <Healeys@autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Vapor lock gas
> =20
> www.petro-canada.com
>=20
>>> On May 7, 2021, at 6:27 AM, Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>=20
>> =EF=BB=BF
>> In the =E2=80=98States, fuel is blended with ethanol (thanks to the corn l=
obby). Dunno about Canada.
>>=20
>>> On May 7, 2021, at 5:59 AM, Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com> wro=
te:
>>>=20
>>> =EF=BB=BF
>>> re: "Methanol[sic] lowers the boiling point ..."
>>>=20
>>> Typo?
>>>=20
>>> Have I got that wrong Bob?
>>>=20
>>> "Following the crude oil price shocks of the 1970=E2=80=99s, methanol bl=
ends for use in the onroad
>>> vehicle fleet began extensive studies in the later 1970=E2=80=99s and th=
e 1980=E2=80=99s. Based on
>>> this early research, methanol blends containing up to 15 vol% (M15) were=
successfully
>>> operated by automakers or oil companies in a number of large vehicle fle=
et trials (
>>> ~ 1000 vehicles each) in Sweden, Germany, New Zealand and China during t=
hat
>>> time. Also during that time period, methanol gasoline blends containing a=
s much as 5 vol% with co-solvent alcohols were
>>> commercially introduced in Europe and the U.S.A. Because carburetted fue=
l systems with older elastomer parts were part of
>>> vehicle fleets on the road at that time and had limited ability to handl=
ed high oxygen content in the fuel, the fully commercial
>>> methanol blends were generally limited to 3 to 5 vol% of the gasoline bl=
end with some co-solvents also added to provide fuel
>>> stability. However, with today=E2=80=99s modern pressurised fuel injecto=
r systems using feedback control loops and also using more
>>> advance fuel system materials, current experience suggests that methanol=
blends as high as 15 vol% (M15) of the gasoline
>>> blend with adequate co-solvents and corrosion inhibitors can now be succ=
essfully used in today=E2=80=99s more modern vehicles in
>>> use today. Many provinces in China have been commercially using M15 blen=
ds as early as 2005, and China=E2=80=99s M15 use has
>>> been expanding because of very favourable economics compared to higher c=
ost petroleum fuels."
>>>=20
>>> M
>>>=20
>>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 11:03 AM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote=
:
>>> re: "Methanol[sic] lowers the boiling point ..."
>>>=20
>>> Typo?
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> On 5/6/2021 6:51 AM, Michael Salter wrote:
>>>> Hi Ken, yes I think everyone with a 100 has encountered fuel delivery i=
ssues with modern fuels. Methanol lowers the boiling point of petrol to a po=
int where it becomes a problem.=20
>>>> With the 100 there are 2 distinct issues.=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Firstly, because the fuel pump and its associated lines are directly ab=
ove the exhaust pipe, hot air heats them. The fuel in the suction side of th=
e pump has, effectively, a lower boiling point than it would at atmospheric p=
ressure. This fuel tends to boil if there isn't sufficient air circulation t=
o keep the pump and lines cooled, as occurs while stopped in traffic on a ho=
t day. True vapor lock occurs because the pump will not pump sufficient vol=
ume of vapour to exceed the rate of its production by the boiling process.
>>>>=20
>>>> Secondly the carburetor float chambers and the small fuel passage to th=
e jet are very close to the exhaust manifold.=20
>>>> The manifold radiates lots of heat which heats them. Again when the car=
is moving at a reasonable pace the incoming air through the grille and arou=
nd the radiator is sufficient to maintain the carburetor at a low enough tem=
perature to prohibit boiling but, again when stopped in traffic this doesn't=
happen.
>>>>=20
>>>> I have managed to eliminate the first problem by installing a insulatin=
g sleeve from a modern car's AC hose over the fuel line from the tank to the=
pump.
>>>>=20
>>>> For the second I have made small heatshields from 24 gauge galvanized s=
teel to shield as much as possible of the carburetors from the radiated heat=
. This has helped considerably but not completely eliminated the problem.=20=
>>>>=20
>>>> For the most part neither of these modifications are visible and I have=
found that fuel delivery issues, although not completely eliminated, are ma=
nageable.=20
>>>> I am considering installing a small blower and duct sourcing air from b=
ehind the grille to see how much difference that makes but if course that wi=
ll be visible.
>>>> Hope that helps, others may have found better solutions.=20
>>>>=20
>>>> M
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Mon., May 3, 2021, 2:58 p.m. Ken Fleming, <ahmg@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Michael , I thought you maybe have experience this ans have a solution .=
On my Bn1 which is M spec with carbs, advance distributed, LeMans Cam and P=
istons has always suffered from what I call vapor lock of gas. Especially in=
hot weather .=20
>>>> I am assuming the heat is from
>>>> Manifold and it placement near carbs or fuel pump/ battery near exhaust=
play a role but I could be wrong . I have asked other owners and they seem m=
ost of them not to have same problem. I do have a heat sheild added with lit=
tle result.
>>>> I am at a loss as to
>>>> What to do
>>>> Next , but have you experienced this and have any suggestions. Are my a=
ssumptions
>>>> Correct on heat causing the issue. Could today=E2=80=99s quality if ga=
s be a issue?
>>>> I recall reading this was a common issue for 100=E2=80=99s to have vapo=
r issues.=20
>>>> Ken
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>>=20
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/arc=
hive
>>>=20
>>> Healeys@autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>>=20
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michae=
lsalter@gmail.com
>>>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve
>=20
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/blueheal=
ey@gmail.com
>=20
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Welcome to my world. That is around t=
he normal price of fuel here in the UK.<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Alan - from m=
y iPad</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On 7 May 2021, at=
17:47, WILLIAM B LAWRENCE <YNOTINK@msn.com> wrote:<br><br></blockquot=
e></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">
<div>During my jaunt to the west coast meet in Parksville, BC in 2012 I indu=
lged in a tank of Premium non-ethanol fuel. As I recall it was priced by the=
liter and calculated to about $6.50 per gallon. The car loved it. The card,=
not so much...</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" sty=
le=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Healeys <healeys-bou=
nces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>=
;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 7, 2021 1:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Healeys@autox.team.net <Healeys@autox.team.net><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Vapor lock gas</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div dir=3D"ltr">www.petro-canada.com</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">On May 7, 2021, at 6:27 AM, Bob Spidell <bspide=
ll@comcast.net> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
<div dir=3D"ltr">In the =E2=80=98States, fuel is blended with ethanol (thank=
s to the corn lobby). Dunno about Canada.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">On May 7, 2021, at 5:59 AM, Michael Salter <mic=
haelsalter@gmail.com> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-s=
ize:small">
<b><i>re: "Methanol[sic] lowers the boiling point ..."<br>
<br>
Typo?</i></b><span class=3D"x_gmail-im"><br>
</span></div>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-s=
ize:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-s=
ize:small">
Have I got that wrong Bob?</div>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-s=
ize:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-s=
ize:small">
<i>"Following the crude oil price shocks of the 1970=E2=80=99s, methanol ble=
nds for use in the onroad<br>
vehicle fleet began extensive studies in the later 1970=E2=80=99s and the 19=
80=E2=80=99s. Based on<br>
this early research, methanol blends containing up to 15 vol% (M15) were suc=
cessfully<br>
operated by automakers or oil companies in a number of large vehicle fleet t=
rials (<br>
~ 1000 vehicles each) in Sweden, Germany, New Zealand and China during that<=
br>
time. Also during that time period, methanol gasoline blends containing as m=
uch as 5 vol% with co-solvent alcohols were<br>
commercially introduced in Europe and the U.S.A. Because carburetted fuel sy=
stems with older elastomer parts were part of<br>
vehicle fleets on the road at that time and had limited ability to handled h=
igh oxygen content in the fuel, the fully commercial<br>
methanol blends were generally limited to 3 to 5 vol% of the gasoline blend w=
ith some co-solvents also added to provide fuel<br>
stability. However, with today=E2=80=99s modern pressurised fuel injector sy=
stems using feedback control loops and also using more<br>
advance fuel system materials, current experience suggests that methanol ble=
nds as high as 15 vol% (M15) of the gasoline<br>
blend with adequate co-solvents and corrosion inhibitors can now be successf=
ully used in today=E2=80=99s more modern vehicles in<br>
use today. Many provinces in China have been commercially using M15 blends a=
s early as 2005, and China=E2=80=99s M15 use has<br>
been expanding because of very favourable economics compared to higher cost p=
etroleum fuels."</i></div>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-s=
ize:small">
<i><br>
</i></div>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-s=
ize:small">
M<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-s=
ize:small">
<i></i></div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 11:03 AM Bob S=
pidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";>bspidell@comcast.net</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; borde=
r-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div>re: "Methanol[sic] lowers the boiling point ..."<br>
<br>
Typo?<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 5/6/2021 6:51 AM, Michael Salter wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"auto">Hi Ken, yes I think everyone with a 100 has encountered fu=
el delivery issues with modern fuels. Methanol lowers the boiling point of p=
etrol to a point where it becomes a problem.
<div dir=3D"auto">With the 100 there are 2 distinct issues. </div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Firstly, because the fuel pump and its associated lines ar=
e directly above the exhaust pipe, hot air heats them. The fuel in the sucti=
on side of the pump has, effectively, a lower boiling point than it would at=
atmospheric pressure. This fuel
tends to boil if there isn't sufficient air circulation to keep the pump an=
d lines cooled, as occurs while stopped in traffic on a hot day. True vapor l=
ock occurs because the pump will not pump sufficient volume of vapour t=
o exceed the rate of its production
by the boiling process.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Secondly the carburetor float chambers and the small fuel p=
assage to the jet are very close to the exhaust manifold. </div>
<div dir=3D"auto">The manifold radiates lots of heat which heats them. Again=
when the car is moving at a reasonable pace the incoming air through the gr=
ille and around the radiator is sufficient to maintain the carburetor at a l=
ow enough temperature to prohibit
boiling but, again when stopped in traffic this doesn't happen.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I have managed to eliminate the first problem by installin=
g a insulating sleeve from a modern car's AC hose over the fuel line from th=
e tank to the pump.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">For the second I have made small heatshields from 24 gauge=
galvanized steel to shield as much as possible of the carburetors from the r=
adiated heat. This has helped considerably but not completely eliminated the=
problem. </div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">For the most part neither of these modifications are visib=
le and I have found that fuel delivery issues, although not completely elimi=
nated, are manageable. </div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I am considering installing a small blower and duct sourci=
ng air from behind the grille to see how much difference that makes but if c=
ourse that will be visible.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Hope that helps, others may have found better solutions.&n=
bsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Mon., May 3, 2021, 2:58 p.m. Ken =
Fleming, <<a href=3D"mailto:ahmg@aol.com"; target=3D"_blank">ahmg@aol.com<=
/a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; borde=
r-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
Michael , I thought you maybe have experience this ans have a solution . On m=
y Bn1 which is M spec with carbs, advance distributed, LeMans Cam and Piston=
s has always suffered from what I call vapor lock of gas. Especially in hot w=
eather .
<br>
I am assuming the heat is from<br>
Manifold and it placement near carbs or fuel pump/ battery near exhaust play=
a role but I could be wrong . I have asked other owners and they seem most o=
f them not to have same problem. I do have a heat sheild added with little r=
esult.<br>
I am at a loss as to<br>
What to do<br>
Next , but have you experienced this and have any suggestions. Are my assump=
tions<br>
Correct on heat causing the issue. Could today=E2=80=99s quality if ga=
s be a issue?<br>
I recall reading this was a common issue for 100=E2=80=99s to have vapor iss=
ues. <br>
Ken<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
er" target=3D"_blank">
<br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys"; rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">
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rchive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">
http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
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am.net</a><br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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