List,
Reminding everyone of Chat session at 7 pm MT tonight.
http://www.amoproductions.com/268
there is a link on the first page for joining the chat session, see you all
there,
Jonathan Amo
http://www.amoproductions.com/268
Glen Barrett wrote:
> Right on Wes, I couldn't have said it better
> Glen Barrett
> Chief Timer SCTA/BNI and proud of it.
>
> Wester S Potter wrote:
>
> > Malcolm, List,
> > This always reminds me of the ball games when I was a kid when the one who
> > owned the ball got mad about something and took his ball and went home.
> > The honor has generally gone out of the International record claiming game
> > unless we all accept the same rules.
> > Accurate records are established as accurate timing equipment is used. When
> > Teddy Tetzlaff first ran on the Bonneville Salt Flats in 1914 his runs were
> > timed by a group of men holding stop watches. His stop watch timed speed
> > was marginally faster than the same car had gone at Daytona (or Ormond
> > Beach) four years previously ... in the 147 MPH plus range. I have no
> > knowledge of how the car was timed at Daytona. The American Automobile
> > Association disallowed the Bonneville timing because they didn't accept
> > times using a stopwatch under ten miles or one hour in time.
> > When Ab Jenkins, Malcolm Campbell, George E. T. Eyston and John Cobb were
> > fighting it out for flying mile and endurance records in the thirties on the
> > salt, their timing was accepted by all parties involved including the AAA
> > and USAC who timed and certified those records. This was because they were
> > all running at the same approximate time of year on the same course and each
> > was observing the others times and runs.
> > When Otto Crocker timed the runs at Bonneville Speed Week in the early
> > years, all the hot rod competetors accepted his times for the same reason.
> > The Salt Lake City Chamber of Commerce who staged the races accepted his
> > equipment.
> > With the advent of computer timing and the available print-outs it depends
> > on the certification of the accuracy of the computer. We use a software
> > program for USFRA that is a slight modification of the one used by NHRA to
> > time drag racing. We could give reaction times, times for any distance
> > along the course, entry qualifying trap times, kilo, mile, exit trap times
> > and any combination of the above. All we have to do is accurately set up
> > the electric eyes, distances and wire. SCTA/BNI clocks use software that
> > gives the same accurate kind of readouts.
> > At one time the AAA, USAC, FIA and other governing bodies owned the only
> > certified clocks and were used for record runs because they were accepted by
> > all involved. Today my nine year old neighbor could write a software
> > program with a speed break down to several decimal points more accurate than
> > their timers were. The FIA officials who certify record runs just look at
> > the set up and say OK. They don't even own clocks to time runs on the salt!
> > The whole world of speed claims is academic unless there is the HONOR
> > involved among racers running at different times on different courses to use
> > accurate equipment, measurements and to follow accepted timing practice and
> > procedures.
> > Let the FIA play with their multi-million dollar Formula 1 toys and
> > politics. Who cares that they don't attempt to be up to date enough to have
> > defined classes for various body styles, fuels etc.? Other than respect for
> > Andy Green and the whole Thrust program for what they acomplished, does
> > their wingless airplane record change anything essential with wheel driven
> > racing? It's a lot like asking someone else to critique your bedroom
> > activities or asking an official from a Rugby federation to take over the
> > NFL. Who needs them? We don't want someone like Bernie Ecclestone (sp?)
> > sticking his nose in land-speed racing just as the FIA doesn't want Gary
> > Allen or Mike Manghelli trying to dictate to their sport. If Nolan White's
> > 442 MPH time was clocked either two ways or two times as conditions
> > permitted, on accurate equipment ( and I believe it was ), would Al Teague
> > and Bill Summers and Don Vesco recognize his run as a wheel driven record?
> > Would Andy Green ?
> > If the racers on Lake Gairdner, Australia this March turn in some
> > incredible, faster than existing record, times will the 200 MPH Club,
> > SCTA/BNI and USFRA recognize those times or more importantly will their
> > amateur land-speed racing peers in the USA?
> > That's my quarters worth.
> > Wes Potter ... speaking only as an involved watcher of land speed racing for
> > over fifty years.
> > ----------
> > > From: Malcolm Pittwood <MPittwood@compuserve.com>
> > > To: "Land-speed@autox.team.net" <Land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > > Subject: On line chat topic
> > > Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 14:38:42 -0500
> > >
> > >Hi everyone,
> > >Due to the time difference with Britain I will not be able to join the 3 am
> > >chat with a working day to follow.
> > >Just to help the topic of BNI/SCTA/USFRA times for runs, working time in
> > >impound and FIM & FIA record attempts, heres by two pence worth.
> > >If your club or sanctioning body is not an affiliated body of the FIA or
> > >FIM then why worry what you call your records. To these two World
> > >governing bodies you are just running club events for "local" records -
> > >that may offend some of your organisers and many of the racers but that is
> > >how they are seen. Remember there is no differentiation by body style in
> > >their rules, only capacity divisions. Your 'local' record in the classes
> > >may be faster than the FIA or FIM listings but these two bodies will never
> > >ever acknowledge them as International/World records.
> > >On four wheels, as Mike Jenkins explained last week there is only one
> > >"World Record" - the Thrust SSC outright speed of 763.035 mph. On two
> > >wheels there are FIA World Records for ALL capacity classes for the
> > >variety of distances and duration records.
> > >ACCUS is one USA based FIM affiliated organisation as is USAC but I do not
> > >know if they have any input into anything other than individual ouright
> > >records. Perhaps someone could explain from your side of the pond why they
> > >are not at Bonneville ? The AMA is the USA motorcycle affiliated body and
> > >they seem to interact only with the "Land Speed Authority" organisation.
> > >Is that so ?
> > >The 'four hour maintenance working rule' in impound makes little sense to
> > >me, as the return run to achieve a record is the day following the first
> > >pass any way.
> > >The FIA 1 hour ruling and the FIM 2 hour ruling for 1 mile timed distances,
> > >is to ensure that the two runs occur in (almost) stable conditions on one
> > >day - much more difficult to do ? Because little work is allowed by either
> > >sanctioning body except general safety checks and maintenance on the
> > >vehicle between runs you do not need time to "rebuild the vehicle from the
> > >ground up".
> > >With strong comments expressed on the list I do not expect to see any
> > >changes in the way the USA do things in general at Bonneville meetings.
> > >Some US racers will dip deep into their pockets to get International
> > >(FIA/FIM) recognition because they can rightly be compared directly with
> > >the best of the past. Brits will come across to your US deserts to set
> > >World Records in their own events. Bonneville Speed Week will continue
> > >for another 50 years as a wonderful sporting event. Can anyone see this
> > >changing ?
> > >Have a good chat tonight.
> > >Malcolm Pittwood, Derby, England.
> > >
> > >
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