Tom seems to have a rather small request. At the risk of being a
target, I will say what I have observed, and let those who will deal
with it.
The Mk I's I have examined, and know to be original paint jobs (and worn
enough to prove it), or known to have been specially protected during a
re-spray, have rivets with tapered heads, and no central hole.
This contrasts with the general aluminum pop rivet that has a central
hole where the loose pull rod has fallen back through, and a rounded
exposed head with a flattened top where the tool pressed. There is a
very small diameter broken stem in the center of the original, again
with an even smaller flattened area where the installation tool pressed.
The sides tapered back from this point as straight conical, not rounded
shape.
I have seen original ROOTES Tiger VIN rivets, still in their Rootes
identified parts bag. They are unusual in that they are a dark, nearly
black, coated copper seeming material with a solid small rod out the top
about 1/2 the diameter of the standard steel or aluminum pop rivet. This
rod is solidly in place and does not rotate. It seemed one piece with
the rivet body, and would not twist or move in any direction. There was
NO head on the other (back) side of the rivet representing the loose pin
in the normal pop rivet. It was flat and solid, and the same diameter as
the undeformed shank. The unused round pull shank was straight out the
top of the unusual head, and appeared to be one piece with the solid
rivet body. The head sides were tapered to a flattened top where it
would press against the tool, with some slight knurling pattern around
the sides of the tapered top.
That is my best recollection, and matches the rivets installed on my
car, including the remains of the fixed, broken off central shaft with a
few remaining rougher central broken edges. When I re-painted my car I
masked off the entire VIN tag, and personally discussed it with the body
shop. Only difficulty I had was removing the carefully edge trimmed
masking tape that can lift and bend the thin aluminum VIN tag if you are
not careful.
The oil data plate was held in with ordinary aluminum pop rivets with
holes where the pull shaft fell back in after rivet expansion.
Mk IA's, as I seem to recall, used these same hollow center rivets, like
the lubricant plate, instead of the solid ones described for the Mk I.
This may be a result of the selection I saw being re-riveted and not
original. I cannot verify.
The JAL plate was held on with ordinary flat headed SMS (sheet metal
screws) with a slotted head. It was painted, along with the plate, as it
was mounted to the body before original painting.
OK, those are my personal observations, which have the benefit of seeing
these rivets BEFORE they were used.
For future inquiries, it is not my intent to discuss the unusual
circumstances of viewing the original Rootes bag. I am NOT the only one
on this list who has seen these, as some well regarded experts have. I
am sorry, you will just have to take that as the limit of what I had
agreed to disclose and what not to discuss about it Either believe me,
or not, as you choose. Use the information as you will, I cannot betray
a confidence. For those with a good memory, or a copy of the posting,
these rivets WERE being sold on E-Bay by parties unknown to me, and
pictures of the rivets and the original bags were on the bid offer.
That is public, but not in my possession. They corresponded to the
ones I have held in my hands, but were NOT from the same source.
Steve
Tom Witt wrote:
> You know, I'm not too sure that I've ever seen a Tiger with original
>rivets (and no, I'm not saying they are not out there). It seems that just
>about ever Tiger I've seen has different rivets on it. As best I understand,
>it has a tapered head (as opposed to the more common rounded head) with a
>small, flat portion on top and a rather small hole. On the other hand I have
>"heard" (can't remember where) that Rootes used two different types
>rivets??? Perhaps this is just urban legend. Dose anyone have a link to real
>Rootes tag rivet pictures (and JAL screws for that matter)?
> I think that in most cases regarding different rivets if there is nothing
>sending up red flags (i.e. the tag # has been reported as stolen, the car in
>question fits the description of a recently stolen Tiger) then the tag will
>be pulled and a special DMV (Calif.) tag will be intalled in it's place. You
>might be harassed a lot and have to jump through a lot of hoops, but I don't
>think it is as black and white as rivets ok = car ok, wrong rivets = crushed
>car. Now, I'm not saying that never has happened, it's just that it likely
>doesn't happen all the time.
> Perhaps the one good line the Clinton Administration left us with is
>"Don't ask, don't tell." Don't ever pull your rivets and don't ever even
>mention them in the presence of a DMV offical or law enforcment for ANY
>reason. Perhaps if someone wants to dip their car the plate can be covered
>with a plastic piece siliconed in place (???), though I'm not sure how one
>would protect the rivet from the back side.
>TomWitt B9470101
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <CoolVT@aol.com>
>To: <Pirouette@uisreno.com>; <VegasLegal@aol.com>; <tigers@autox.team.net>
>Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 5:47 AM
>Subject: Re: spray painted vin # and crushing cars.
>
>
>
>
>>It would be interesting to see if a DMV inspector could tell the
>>
>>
>difference
>
>
>>between an original, 30 year old Rootes factory rivet and say a General
>>
>>
>Motors
>
>
>>factory rivet. I would kind of doubt that! So, I think the danger in
>>removing factory tags has more to do with being original for Tiger
>>
>>
>owners/buyers than
>
>
>>for DMV inspectors. For the inspectors, just rivet a tag on and how will
>>they know if it's an original Rootes rivet (of course, I don't think you
>>
>>
>would
>
>
>>want it to be too shiny and looking new).
>>
>>I would bet that if there are some "special" factory rivets in today's
>>assembly plants that there are plenty of employees sneaking them out in
>>
>>
>their
>
>
>>pockets! Great to sell to car thieves.
>>Mark L.
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Steve Laifman
Editor
http://www.TigersUnited.com
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