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Stay with a GL4 85/90w lube, I think j found it at NAPA.=20
Bill
TS30766L
=E2=80=9CThe harder I work, the luckier I get=E2=80=9D H. Ford
On May 9, 2026, at 2:45=E2=80=AFAM, Mark Bradakis <mark@bradakis.com> wrote:=
=EF=BB=BFFor some reason this was flagged by Mailman. No idea why.
mjb.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
-----Original Message-----
From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of John Macartney=
Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2026 3:30 PM
Cc: triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject: [TR] Rear axle oil
Had an early night after spending the day sorting old Standard-Triumph handb=
ooks (among lots of other stuff) and have just checked the grade for Standar=
d Vanguard and TR3/3A as both used the same axle. Factory recommended an 85W=
90 GL4 type Hypoy as offered by Shell, BP, Castrol, Duckhams, Texaco. IOW, a=
hyper lube type with an ultra high resistance to shear. Does the stuff you h=
ave offer the same lubricity properties? Never heard of it myself but most m=
odern oils are a complete mystery to me anyway. Still can=E2=80=99t get used=
to the family daily driver only being allowed a 0w20 full synthetic. Pours l=
ike water!
Jonmac
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Regarding the 0w20, I'd like to have a bit of a rant on today's mechanical d=
esigns.
When we take a look at the longevity of the supposed "high technology" direc=
t injection engines of today and over the past say 10-15 years, it is woeful=
ly clear that these driveline designs are not lasting. Sure, they provide p=
erformance and a lot of mpg per BHP per cc/cid, but all that tech designs ha=
ve all sorts of problems.
Might that be from too thin oil? As a long time cross-discipline control sy=
stem professional, the lubricants or use of improper spec lubricants may b=
e a cause, but not entirely, as when you tear into these new tech engines, t=
hey are yes, mechanical marvels controlled by complex computer management, b=
ut also, mechanical nightmares more likely to self-destruct if a micropartic=
le of contaminate invades the wrong internal spot, a sensor allows the wrong=
stuff to enter the engine somewhere or the coolant level drops because some=
plastic coolant manifold or connection has a weak spot and suddenly dumped a=
ll the coolant creating a high temp spike on the close tolerance components.=
We love the new tech performance, but at what cost?
People slammed the Triumph Stag 2997 CC OHC V8 for its design "flaws" but wh=
en I dive into some of these newer engines there are strikingly similar desi=
gns copied, I have seen across many other engine manufacturers including GM,=
Mercedes, Toyota, Ford, JLR and others. One example is timing chains, OHC d=
esign, etc. Today's OHC engines, all of them, have issues with timing chain=
tensioners, guides, oil pumps which are manifested from engine designs over=
75 years ago but cost cut even more and designed to very narrow performance=
limits and very close tolerance requirements.
When I look at these newer high-performance engines, they all appear to have=
the same old issues: multiple simplex roller timing chains (some use intern=
al rubber belts!!!) held in place by insufficiently designed guides and ten=
sioners driving all sorts of internal components like oil/fuel/water pumps b=
uried deep internally into the engine, variable valve timing, variable strok=
e, very high-pressure requirements for oil and fuel with electronics like so=
lenoids and sensors operating in the component lubricants, and they all have=
significant design structural problems from material and cost scrimping and=
lack of real longevity whether they are petrol/gas or diesel.
I have been looking at the various JLR newer models, and what incredible val=
ue can be had in say a Range Rover autobiography /SV/Dynamic/ that had cost 1=
80k USD or far more, yet with a blown 5.0 liter engine, they are relatively w=
orthless. To rebuild one of those 3.0 or 5.0 engines, have a look at some o=
f the teardown and rebuilds of any modern direct injection engine and you wi=
ll quickly see the engines are all completely disposable designs; materials a=
re skimped in the blocks to save manufacturing time, weight and maximize coo=
ling, but when they break, they self-destruct. Labor alone to tear down and r=
eassemble is often more that the OEM cost of the entire engine, and the fact=
ory does not provide rebuild kits. What is a pound of engine webbing struct=
ural aluminum removed from a 600 bhp supercharged engine as an assembly or w=
eight saving design on a 6000# weight vehicle? Maybe if designed for the tr=
ack that amounts to a fraction of a second of speed, but a road vehicle?!?
Lubricants:
Historically, the fact was, API / SAE lubricants designed for components wer=
e once supposed to increase the range of mechanical protections with new spe=
cifications as time went on, where today, a mechanical component may be desi=
gned only for one very narrow type of lubricant that was designed only for t=
hat unique application.
The API/ SAE "meets or exceeds" statements must be carefully dissected to un=
derstand exactly what the lubricant use range and components lubricants are a=
pproved, which may take significant research.
If you decide to use your "favorite brand" oil or coolant in a modern drivel=
ine component not certified for use in that narrow design, you might be unkn=
owingly starting the self-destruction timer.
So, to answer the question for our old and very reliable vehicles, BEGIN wit=
h the Owner's Manual / Factory Manual specification for your lubricants in a=
nd on your components as they were designed by the manufacturer, and if that=
type of lubricant is not available, look and understand what and why it was=
replaced with a later API/SAE tested lubricant that "should" add increased p=
rotection in that application.
AVOID AT ALL COSTS, "my buddies or I uses this and swears by it..." I typic=
ally do not trust my local parts shoppe counter person for lubricant recomme=
ndation unless that counter person was once a master mechanic or factory tra=
ined tech, that being rare. There are reams of Technical Service Bulletins w=
here the factory engineers got it wrong too, only discovered during or after=
warranty periods.
Lubrication is its own science, but if you read the specs, you will get the l=
imitations and also the mechanics tales for snake oil.
Caveat Emptor ya'll.
Glenn a.k.a. StagByTriumph
** triumphs@autox.team.net **
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive=
r@yahoo.com
--Apple-Mail-B34B54C0-A747-4A1E-AD65-096423E354A8
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html class=3D"apple-mail-supports-explicit-dark-mode"><head><meta http-equi=
v=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body dir=3D=
"auto">Stay with a GL4 85/90w lube, I think j found it at NAPA. <div>Bi=
ll</div><div>TS30766L</div><div><br id=3D"lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><=
div dir=3D"ltr">=E2=80=9CThe harder I work, the luckier I get<span style=3D"=
font-size: 19pt;">=E2=80=9D H. Ford</span></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>O=
n May 9, 2026, at 2:45=E2=80=AFAM, Mark Bradakis <mark@bradakis.com> w=
rote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<span>For some reason this was f=
lagged by Mailman. No idea why.</span><br><span></span><br><span>mjb.<=
/span><br><span></span><br><span>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span><br><span=
></span><br><span>-----Original Message-----</span><br><span></span><br><spa=
n>From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of John M=
acartney</span><br><span>Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2026 3:30 PM</span><br><span=
>Cc: triumphs@autox.team.net</span><br><span>Subject: [TR] Rear axle oil</sp=
an><br><span></span><br><span>Had an early night after spending the day sort=
ing old Standard-Triumph handbooks (among lots of other stuff) and have just=
checked the grade for Standard Vanguard and TR3/3A as both used the same ax=
le. Factory recommended an 85W90 GL4 type Hypoy as offered by Shell, BP, Cas=
trol, Duckhams, Texaco. IOW, a hyper lube type with an ultra high resistance=
to shear. Does the stuff you have offer the same lubricity properties? Neve=
r heard of it myself but most modern oils are a complete mystery to me anywa=
y. Still can=E2=80=99t get used to the family daily driver only being allowe=
d a 0w20 full synthetic. Pours like water!</span><br><span></span><br><span>=
Jonmac</span><br><span></span><br><span>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span><b=
r><span></span><br><span>Regarding the 0w20, I'd like to have a bit of a ran=
t on today's mechanical designs.</span><br><span></span><br><span>When we ta=
ke a look at the longevity of the supposed "high technology" direct injectio=
n engines of today and over the past say 10-15 years, it is woefully clear t=
hat these driveline designs are not lasting. Sure, they provide perfor=
mance and a lot of mpg per BHP per cc/cid, but all that tech designs have al=
l sorts of problems.</span><br><span>Might that be from too thin oil? =
As a long time cross-discipline control system professional, the lubri=
cants or use of improper spec lubricants may be a cause, but not entir=
ely, as when you tear into these new tech engines, they are yes, mechanical m=
arvels controlled by complex computer management, but also, mechanical night=
mares more likely to self-destruct if a microparticle of contaminate invades=
the wrong internal spot, a sensor allows the wrong stuff to enter the engin=
e somewhere or the coolant level drops because some plastic coolant manifold=
or connection has a weak spot and suddenly dumped all the coolant creating a=
high temp spike on the close tolerance components.</span><br><span></span><=
br><span>We love the new tech performance, but at what cost?</span><br><span=
></span><br><span>People slammed the Triumph Stag 2997 CC OHC V8 for its des=
ign "flaws" but when I dive into some of these newer engines there are strik=
ingly similar designs copied, I have seen across many other engine manufactu=
rers including GM, Mercedes, Toyota, Ford, JLR and others. One example=
is timing chains, OHC design, etc. Today's OHC engines, all of them, h=
ave issues with timing chain tensioners, guides, oil pumps which are manifes=
ted from engine designs over 75 years ago but cost cut even more and designe=
d to very narrow performance limits and very close tolerance requirements.</=
span><br><span></span><br><span>When I look at these newer high-performance e=
ngines, they all appear to have the same old issues: multiple simplex roller=
timing chains (some use internal rubber belts!!!) held in place by in=
sufficiently designed guides and tensioners driving all sorts of internal co=
mponents like oil/fuel/water pumps buried deep internally into the engine, v=
ariable valve timing, variable stroke, very high-pressure requirements for o=
il and fuel with electronics like solenoids and sensors operating in the com=
ponent lubricants, and they all have significant design structural problems f=
rom material and cost scrimping and lack of real longevity whether they are p=
etrol/gas or diesel.</span><br><span></span><br><span>I have been looking at=
the various JLR newer models, and what incredible value can be had in say a=
Range Rover autobiography /SV/Dynamic/ that had cost 180k USD or far more, y=
et with a blown 5.0 liter engine, they are relatively worthless. To re=
build one of those 3.0 or 5.0 engines, have a look at some of the teardown a=
nd rebuilds of any modern direct injection engine and you will quickly see t=
he engines are all completely disposable designs; materials are skimped in t=
he blocks to save manufacturing time, weight and maximize cooling, but when t=
hey break, they self-destruct. Labor alone to tear down and reassemble is of=
ten more that the OEM cost of the entire engine, and the factory does not pr=
ovide rebuild kits. What is a pound of engine webbing structural alumi=
num removed from a 600 bhp supercharged engine as an assembly or weight savi=
ng design on a 6000# weight vehicle? Maybe if designed for the track t=
hat amounts to a fraction of a second of speed, but a road vehicle?!?</span>=
<br><span></span><br><span>Lubricants:</span><br><span>Historically, the fac=
t was, API / SAE lubricants designed for components were once supposed to in=
crease the range of mechanical protections with new specifications as time w=
ent on, where today, a mechanical component may be designed only for one ver=
y narrow type of lubricant that was designed only for that unique applicatio=
n.</span><br><span></span><br><span>The API/ SAE "meets or exceeds" statemen=
ts must be carefully dissected to understand exactly what the lubricant use r=
ange and components lubricants are approved, which may take significant rese=
arch.</span><br><span></span><br><span>If you decide to use your "favorite b=
rand" oil or coolant in a modern driveline component not certified for use i=
n that narrow design, you might be unknowingly starting the self-destruction=
timer.</span><br><span></span><br><span>So, to answer the question for our o=
ld and very reliable vehicles, BEGIN with the Owner's Manual / Factory Manua=
l specification for your lubricants in and on your components as they were d=
esigned by the manufacturer, and if that type of lubricant is not available,=
look and understand what and why it was replaced with a later API/SAE teste=
d lubricant that "should" add increased protection in that application.</spa=
n><br><span>AVOID AT ALL COSTS, "my buddies or I uses this and swears by it.=
.." I typically do not trust my local parts shoppe counter person for l=
ubricant recommendation unless that counter person was once a master mechani=
c or factory trained tech, that being rare. There are reams of Technic=
al Service Bulletins where the factory engineers got it wrong too, only disc=
overed during or after warranty periods.</span><br><span>Lubrication is its o=
wn science, but if you read the specs, you will get the limitations and also=
the mechanics tales for snake oil.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Caveat E=
mptor ya'll.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Glenn a.k.a. StagByTriumph</sp=
an><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>** triumphs@autox.team.net **=
</span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html</s=
pan><br><span>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://w=
ww.team.net/archive</span><br><span></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: htt=
p://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/notakitcar@yahoo.com</span><br><=
/div></div></body></html>=
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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive
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