Re: [TR] Rear axle oil - overall lubricants and new designs

[John Macartney <johnbmacartney@gmx.com>]

Sorry. What did I do wrong?

Jonmac

> On 9 May 2026, at 07:49, Mark Bradakis <mark@bradakis.com> wrote:
> 
> For some reason this was flagged by Mailman.  No idea why.
> 
> mjb.
> 
> =========
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of John Macartney
> Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2026 3:30 PM
> Cc: triumphs@autox.team.net
> Subject: [TR] Rear axle oil
> 
> Had an early night after spending the day sorting old Standard-Triumph 
> handbooks (among lots of other stuff) and have just checked the grade for 
> Standard Vanguard and TR3/3A as both used the same axle. Factory recommended 
> an 85W90 GL4 type Hypoy as offered by Shell, BP, Castrol, Duckhams, Texaco. 
> IOW, a hyper lube type with an ultra high resistance to shear. Does the stuff 
> you have offer the same lubricity properties? Never heard of it myself but 
> most modern oils are a complete mystery to me anyway. Still canâ??t get used 
> to the family daily driver only being allowed a 0w20 full synthetic. Pours 
> like water!
> 
> Jonmac
> 
> =========
> 
> Regarding the 0w20, I'd like to have a bit of a rant on today's mechanical 
> designs.
> 
> When we take a look at the longevity of the supposed "high technology" direct 
> injection engines of today and over the past say 10-15 years, it is woefully 
> clear that these driveline designs are not lasting.  Sure, they provide 
> performance and a lot of mpg per BHP per cc/cid, but all that tech designs 
> have all sorts of problems.
> Might that be from too thin oil?  As a long time cross-discipline control 
> system professional,  the lubricants  or use of improper spec lubricants may 
> be a cause, but not entirely, as when you tear into these new tech engines, 
> they are yes, mechanical marvels controlled by complex computer management, 
> but also, mechanical nightmares more likely to self-destruct if a 
> microparticle of contaminate invades the wrong internal spot, a sensor allows 
> the wrong stuff to enter the engine somewhere or the coolant level drops 
> because some plastic coolant manifold or connection has a weak spot and 
> suddenly dumped all the coolant creating a high temp spike on the close 
> tolerance components.
> 
> We love the new tech performance, but at what cost?
> 
> People slammed the Triumph Stag 2997 CC OHC V8 for its design "flaws" but 
> when I dive into some of these newer engines there are strikingly similar 
> designs copied, I have seen across many other engine manufacturers including 
> GM, Mercedes, Toyota, Ford, JLR and others.  One example is timing chains, 
> OHC design, etc.  Today's OHC engines, all of them, have issues with timing 
> chain tensioners, guides, oil pumps which are manifested from engine designs 
> over 75 years ago but cost cut even more and designed to very narrow 
> performance limits and very close tolerance requirements.
> 
> When I look at these newer high-performance engines, they all appear to have 
> the same old issues: multiple simplex roller timing chains (some use internal 
> rubber belts!!!)  held in place by insufficiently designed guides and 
> tensioners driving all sorts of internal components like oil/fuel/water pumps 
> buried deep internally into the engine, variable valve timing, variable 
> stroke, very high-pressure requirements for oil and fuel with electronics 
> like solenoids and sensors operating in the component lubricants, and they 
> all have significant design structural problems from material and cost 
> scrimping and lack of real longevity whether they are petrol/gas or diesel.
> 
> I have been looking at the various JLR newer models, and what incredible 
> value can be had in say a Range Rover autobiography /SV/Dynamic/ that had 
> cost 180k USD or far more, yet with a blown 5.0 liter engine, they are 
> relatively worthless.  To rebuild one of those 3.0 or 5.0 engines, have a 
> look at some of the teardown and rebuilds of any modern direct injection 
> engine and you will quickly see the engines are all completely disposable 
> designs; materials are skimped in the blocks to save manufacturing time, 
> weight and maximize cooling, but when they break, they self-destruct. Labor 
> alone to tear down and reassemble is often more that the OEM cost of the 
> entire engine, and the factory does not provide rebuild kits.  What is a 
> pound of engine webbing structural aluminum removed from a 600 bhp 
> supercharged engine as an assembly or weight saving design on a 6000# weight 
> vehicle?  Maybe if designed for the track that amounts to a fraction of a 
> second of speed, but a road vehicle?!?
> 
> Lubricants:
> Historically, the fact was, API / SAE lubricants designed for components were 
> once supposed to increase the range of mechanical protections with new 
> specifications as time went on, where today, a mechanical component may be 
> designed only for one very narrow type of lubricant that was designed only 
> for that unique application.
> 
> The API/ SAE "meets or exceeds" statements must be carefully dissected to 
> understand exactly what the lubricant use range and components lubricants are 
> approved, which may take significant research.
> 
> If you decide to use your "favorite brand" oil or coolant in a modern 
> driveline component not certified for use in that narrow design, you might be 
> unknowingly starting the self-destruction timer.
> 
> So, to answer the question for our old and very reliable vehicles, BEGIN with 
> the Owner's Manual / Factory Manual specification for your lubricants in and 
> on your components as they were designed by the manufacturer, and if that 
> type of lubricant is not available, look and understand what and why it was 
> replaced with a later API/SAE tested lubricant that "should" add increased 
> protection in that application.
> AVOID AT ALL COSTS, "my buddies or I uses this and swears by it..."  I 
> typically do not trust my local parts shoppe counter person for lubricant 
> recommendation unless that counter person was once a master mechanic or 
> factory trained tech, that being rare.  There are reams of Technical Service 
> Bulletins where the factory engineers got it wrong too, only discovered 
> during or after warranty periods.
> Lubrication is its own science, but if you read the specs, you will get the 
> limitations and also the mechanics tales for snake oil.
> 
> Caveat Emptor ya'll.
> 
> Glenn a.k.a. StagByTriumph
> 
> 
> 

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