Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 11:05:17 -0400
From: Paul Foster <firstname.lastname@example.org>
<<<But, just to clear a few things up. The SEB, from what Karen Babb
once explained to me does not take input from only one individual, so
Paul Foster's attempts to make me look like the great turbo killer due
to one post on team.net is ridiculous.>>>
> All I did was call attention to the latest Fastrack that states the SEB
> is considering the requirement of running the stock cat on all turbo
> cars. I think this is categorically wrong, but the SCCA has already
> shown it's prejudice against turbo cars by banning them from national
> club racing competition. And yes, I do believe your post on team.net was
> the cause of this action being taken. Call yourself what you want and
> I'll do the same. And for the record I was not the one who called you a
> weasel for your suggestion on how to circumvent the rules.
> Paul Foster
I no longer run a turbo in Street Prepared, but I did for a few years, and
felt discriminated against under the old rules. I had a 3000 pound car with
just a 2.0L 8 valve 4 banger trying to chase 350 hp 3200 pound cars that had
instant torque. I never mnade a dent with the tiny stock turbo, and just 9
psi of boost. I managed 220 hp out of it with legal SP mods and the boost
creeping to 12 psi, but that was still way short. Adding a boost controller
with the stock turbo kicked it to 275 hp, and almost made it possible, but of
Some cars respond better than others, and classing them may be a pain with
certain mods, but requiring the stock exhaust all the way past the cat is
absolutly ludicrous unless they are all moved down several classes. Force ALL
the ESP V-8's (Camaros Mustangs whatever) to run cast iron log manifolds and
a single 2 inch cat, then I might think this rule could work.
I do agree that restricting the wastegate area was definately out of the
spirit of the rules, and should not be allowed though. An easier fix would be
requiring every turbo car to run a pop off valve set at a particular presure
for the engine size, and or weight. They are redilly available, easy to set,
and totally reliable. Allow say 15 psi of boost for 4 bangers, 12 for 6's, or
whatever. If someone wants to crank further, the power falls fast when they
open. Run a boost control, poke holes on wastegate hoses, plug up the
wastegate outlet, it will only hurt you.
On the Talon, if you run the stock downpipe to cat, and turn up the boost
much, it will go into runaway, a bigger down pipe is needed to keep them from
creeping to 25 psi of boost. Been there, done that. This was at a drag strip,
always ran stock at autocross with the Talon. By the way, 25 psi of boost to
fuel cut feels like the engine exploded!!!
The way the SP rules are now, there are very few turbo cars that can be
competitive. More power does not win unless it is contollable. A bigger turbo
adds lag and hurts autocross performance. My old Talon with the big TD05 is a
dog out of every corner where the new T25 ones are on boost. We had a guy
forced into EMod with a TD06-20G and he never got to stock boost on course,
it was always climbing still as he reached the braking zones.
I am sure SCCA could set up a deal with HKS, Greddy, Stillen, whoever, to
make a cheap easilly set and locked pop off valve available to all SP
competitors for a reasonable price, then allow ANY TURBO or boost controller
so they have a chance. 15 PSI with a great intercooler makes about double the
power per cubic inch on a motor with the same cam and a bit less compression.
So my 2.0L 8 valve would still be just a well cammed 4.0L about 240 cu in.
The Talon twin cam would be more like a 300 hp Lexus 4.0L and they weigh as
much as a Camaro, so it looks like a good fit to me.
I will say again, I DON'T RUN SP NOW. This is just my brain going overtime
whenever I think about getting a different car to run. I like boost, but SP
kils them, and I like to tinker with cars. Street Touring Unlimited sure is
fun. I am pushing a solid 300 hp in an old rear drive Celica and having a
blast. If this class falls apart I will probably go right back to EMod again.