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Re: Any Civil Engineers in the House?

To: rase@istar.ca, dg50@daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: Re: Any Civil Engineers in the House?
From: "Don Kline" <solo2dmmr2@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 03:09:55 GMT
Almost anywhere you go you can find a community that has, as a centerpiece, 
a golf course.  The homes are built all around the golf course.  Why not 
build a bunch of homes around a *H*U*G*E* parking lot and have an 
"autocross" community?????

in HIS grace thru Jesus,
Don



>From: Reijo Silvennoinen <rase@istar.ca>
>Reply-To: Reijo Silvennoinen <rase@istar.ca>
>To: dg50@daimlerchrysler.com
>CC: autox@autox.team.net
>Subject: Re: Any Civil Engineers in the House?
>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:52:29 -0600
>
>dg50@daimlerchrysler.com wrote:
>
> > But a back-of-the-napkin calculation says that a 200'X200' pad, at a 
>depth
> > of 4", works out to roughly 40 cubic yards of concrete. At roughly 10 
>cubic
> > yards of concrete per truckload, and roughly $100 per truckload, then 
>that
> > pad costs $4000. Still not chump change, but a 200 sqft pad is a decent
> > sized skidpad....
>
>I just happen to be a civil engineer (although I keep hearing there are no 
>such
>critters...  ;^)  ).
>
>First step, throw out the napkin.  Concrete is in excess of $100 per cu. m. 
>(as
>of over 5 years ago).....varies with location....I'd guess around $120/cu. 
>m.
>CDN actually.  A truck has something like 7 cu. m. in it......$900-1,000 
>per
>truck CDN. might be closer as an estimate.  A truck load of fill might cost 
>a
>little over $100 provided it is not trucked very far.
>
> >  I'm thinking
> > that's large enough to run a pretty decent sized autocross course on....
> > and it's WAY cheaper than I thought.
>
>Too good to be true, isn't it?  ;^)
>
> > And I bet paving with asphalt is even
> > cheaper per square foot.
>
>Not much.  Note that asphalt stands up to salt a little better than 
>concrete
>(concrete is porous, did you know?).
>
> > All of a sudden, the idea of building a dedicated autocross facility
> > doesn't seem quite so far-fetched. I had always figured an initial price 
>in
> > the millions, not the tens of thousands. Can building a facility 
>*really*
> > be cheaper than buying a Dynojet?
>
>haha...millions just may be correct!  As others have already mentioned, the
>concrete or asphalt is a fraction of the cost.  It needs a good base or 
>else it
>will fall apart quite quickly.
>
>That means a soils report/investigation by prof. soils engineers, a storm
>drainage study/design and incorporation of storm drainage retention ponds 
>or
>some other such thing (again by specialized engineers in storm design),
>transportation/traffic studies (transportation engineers), design of the
>sub-base, base etc. etc. etc.......all by professional engineers, landscape
>architects, etc. etc. etc.
>
>Once the design parameters are on paper (professionally produced and 
>stamped
>drawings), you can rest assured that you will require huge equipment (take 
>a
>look next time when you pass a road construction zone or subdivision under
>construction as an example) for earth moving, compaction, removal (poor 
>soils
>and topsoil) of fill, importation of engineered fill, soils testing,
>asphalt/concrete testing, general engineering inspection.
>
>Oh, and by the way, what about zoning?  And ask the neighbours what they 
>might
>think (usually a part of the development permit procedure) about an 
>autocross
>facility next door?  Maybe the extra traffic generated cannot be handled by 
>the
>road....  Maybe the local gov't authorities want you to provide some green
>space and perhaps even some additional development outside your property at
>YOUR expense (such as extensions of existing water/sewer lines, upgrading 
>of
>roads etc.).
>
>Trust me there is much more.......and I won't even get into the issues 
>involved
>if there should be any running water (stream/river/body of water) on the
>property or the land is an agricultural reserve of some sort.  And, you 
>might
>even go through the entire design process and not get approval to proceed.
>
>Feeling overwhelmed yet?  You should be!  ;^)  Chances are you will not be
>allowed to break the ground.
>
>Our office has just recently designed a new kart track (1.1 km. - 9 meters 
>wide
>track) and even with volunteer labour and a good price (paving/earthwork 
>co.
>owned by a racer) they are still looking at something in the vicinity of a 
>$1/4
>Million not including the land (leased land).....provided it is approved by 
>the
>various local authorities affected by the development.
>
>However, I've sometimes thought that the local club (Calgary Sports Car 
>Club)
>could sell it's clubhouse (yep, bought and paid for - the city is quickly
>encroaching) and buy some land just as you are proposing and build a huge
>honkin' paved lot!  - still think it is a great idea although controversial
>locally due to sentiments/history tied up in the clubhouse.  Of course, 
>some
>facility like that would have to be far away from any concentrated 
>development
>to be "cheap".  For instance, an old abandoned WWII airport used for 
>training
>might be possible to obtain.....but the cost will be significant.  It might
>have a decent base on which to place new asphalt or concrete after removing 
>the
>existing runway (one south of Calgary is too broken up to be used by 
>us.....10
>years ago.).
>
>That's enough for now and then some I think...   ;^)
>
>Later,
>Reijo
>
>--
>Reijo Silvennoinen, CSCC Nat'l Event Rep.
>Calgary, Alberta
>Calgary Sports Car Club (CSCC) web site:
>http://www.cscc.ab.ca
>Canadian National Autoslalom Championship (CNAC) list:
>http://www.onelist.com/links/solocanada
>CNAC Web Site:  http://CNAC2000.erc.bc.ca/
>
>

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