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Kees: I wonder whether you can confirm that you really intended below =
to refer to the experiences of those who have had issues as =
=E2=80=9Csome of you claim=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D? =20
=20
If the SU-pumps would have been so unreliable as some of you claim, they =
would not have been used on such a large scale. Many millions of cars =
have had them in the 1930=C2=B4s through to the 1990=C2=B4s, from the =
humble Morris Minor to Rolls Royce.
Sounds like you doubt people=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cclaims=E2=80=9D to have =
been stuck on the side of the road, or under a teetering car with =
traffic passing by =E2=80=93 covered in gasoline, or spending time in =
hotel rooms working on fuel pumps, etc. As I said =E2=80=93 just =
wondering whether you can confirm your intent=E2=80=A6
=20
Al Fuller
=20
'65 BJ-8
'85 Rx-7
=20
From: Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kees =
Oudesluijs
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 5:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Fuel pumps (AGAIN!)
=20
It is not uncommon that a car=C2=B4s service sheet also included the =
SU-pump (clean the points every service), e.g. Lotus Eclat/Elite. =
However I never did and I have had no problems. I used my car as a daily =
driver but it had to live outside all year. Nowadays the car is pampered =
in a heated garage and is mainly driven when the weather is suitable for =
open top driving except for long trips abroad.
The pressure delivered by an SU-pump depends on where the pump is =
situated. If it is fitted under the bonnet it should be a so called =
low-pressure or suction pump delivering 1,8psi (e.g. some Austin-Healey =
Sprite/Mg Midget). You can often recognise this pump by the 2BA screw =
(same size as the screws that hold the coil housing to the pump body) on =
the coil housing for the earth spade. If the pump is fitted near the =
petrol tank it should be a so-called pressure pump delivering 2,7psi =
(e.g. MGB) or 3,8psi (Austin-Healey 3000, Jaguar 6-cyl. cars MkII, =
E-type etc., Triumph Stag, Jensen-Healey a.o.). The high pressure pumps =
can be recognised by a smaller 4BA screw for the earth spade. The =
pressure is fixed and is controlled by the spring fitted under the =
diaphragm. All pumps are identical as far as the coil housing, points =
system, diaphragm are concerned. The differences are in the pump body =
but this has no effect on the pressure, mainly on the variation of =
delivery pressure and flow rate. Some cars have the h.p. pump fitted on =
the chassis open to the elements (e.g. MGB, A-H), others have it =
protected in the boot (e.g. J-H).
There are three types of spring, the low pressure 1,8psi spring can be =
easily recognised as the wire is rather thin and it has more coils, the =
2,7 an3,8psi springs have less coils and look identical to each other =
but the 3,8psi spring is slightly thicker and should have a (faint) dab =
of red paint.
If the SU-pumps would have been so unreliable as some of you claim, they =
would not have been used on such a large scale. Many millions of cars =
have had them in the 1930=C2=B4s through to the 1990=C2=B4s, from the =
humble Morris Minor to Rolls Royce.
Sure, the early ones did wear the points rather quickly because of =
arcing/spark erosion, but this was counteracted by proper maintenance =
which was usually every 1000 to 3000miles in the 30=C2=B4s up to the =
50=C2=B4s. The wear was significantly reduced by using a simple =
capacitor (very like the capacitor in the points distributor), then a =
diode and lately Burlen fitting a transil. The pumps are dual polarity =
except when a diode is fitted.=20
However spark erosion is not the main problem, that is electrolytic =
corrosion due to lack of use and dampish conditions under the cover =
because of improper ventilation like no tubes connected from the pump to =
a dry area of the car (boot) or no rubber band or friction tape on the =
joint of the cover and coil housing or damp storage.
I am not sure if the quality of the points you buy today is less than =
the old ones. I have never used them. I still have NOS points to replace =
worn points, but more often than once cleaning and repolishing the old =
points will do.
=20
Kees Oudesluijs
Not trying to reinvent the wheel, David, just get a fuel pump that =
lasts. Others have had good service from points pumps like you, but I =
haven't. I'm not doing anything unusual; if you get them installed and =
they don't leak and they run that's about all you can do--there's no =
trick or secret to installing them that I know of. Mine just keep =
failing, with between a few hundred and up to 15K miles of service (this =
over about 140,000 miles I've put on my BJ8). I will say I have driven =
through some serious downpours, so water entry into the switching =
compartment could be a problem, but some of the failures didn't get =
drowned.
The points can be problematic, else SU wouldn't have gone from:
1) no arc suppression
2) capacitor arc suppression
3) diode arc suppression
That is to say, SU wouldn't have gone to the expense and labor of =
installing capacitors and diodes if there wasn't some issue with =
reliability or longevity. I tried all three, with results as noted. =
I've installed the out-of-the-box, rebuilt and adjusted them myself, =
installed SS switching mechanism, used capacitors, diodes, TVSes, =
transistors and installed SU electronic out-of-the box with predictable =
results. I do recall your dad either writing or saying that they used =
to take the pumps out and service them--cleaning the points and =
adjusting the mechanism I presume--at 15K mile service when he worked at =
BMC (or was it BL, don't recall), so they aren't typically bulletproof =
forever. =20
Maybe I pissed the SU gods off somehow; though both my sets of SU carbs =
have been all but bulletproof, and the basic points-type in my BN2 has =
worked for a few hundred miles.
Bob
wrote:
I do not understand the problem with the SU pump that everyone feels =
that they have to re invent the wheel. I have using the standard SU pump =
with points in my Healey for almost 75000 miles and never had a failure. =
=20
We also have been installing the standard SU points pump here at the =
shop on every car we do for over 40 years=20
Everything from Healey=E2=80=99s, MG=E2=80=99s and Jaguar=E2=80=99s and =
had very few failures.
=20
=20
=20
David Nock
209 948 8767
<http://www.britishcarspecialists.com> www.britishcarspecialists.com
Help us have our Founder Norman Nock inducteed into the=20
British Sportscar Hall of Fame, You can vote for your favorites=20
by visiting the site at.
<http://www.britishsportscarhall.org> www.britishsportscarhall.org
=20
_______________________________________________
=20
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive
=20
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
=20
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/coudesluijs@chello.nl
=20
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=3Dwhite =
lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>Kees:=C2=A0 I wonder whether you can confirm that you really intended =
below to refer to the experiences of those who have had issues as =
=E2=80=9Csome of you claim=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D?=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>If the =
SU-pumps would have been so unreliable as some of you claim, they would =
not have been used on such a large scale. Many millions of cars have had =
them in the 1930=C2=B4s through to the 1990=C2=B4s, from the humble =
Morris Minor to Rolls Royce.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>Sounds like you doubt people=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cclaims=E2=80=9D to have =
been stuck on the side of the road, or under a teetering car with =
traffic passing by =E2=80=93 covered in gasoline, or spending time in =
hotel rooms working on fuel pumps, etc.=C2=A0 As I said =E2=80=93 just =
wondering whether you can confirm your =
intent=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>Al Fuller</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>'65 BJ-8</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>'85 Rx-7</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowte=
xt'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowte=
xt'> Healeys [<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net";>mailto:healeys-bounces@aut=
ox.team.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Kees Oudesluijs<br><b>Sent:</b> =
Thursday, November 29, 2018 5:15 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><b>S=
ubject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Fuel pumps =
(AGAIN!)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p>It is not uncommon that a =
car=C2=B4s service sheet also included the SU-pump (clean the points =
every service), e.g. Lotus Eclat/Elite. However I never did and I have =
had no problems. I used my car as a daily driver but it had to live =
outside all year. Nowadays the car is pampered in a heated garage and is =
mainly driven when the weather is suitable for open top driving except =
for long trips abroad.<o:p></o:p></p><p>The pressure delivered by an =
SU-pump depends on where the pump is situated. If it is fitted under the =
bonnet it should be a so called low-pressure or suction pump delivering =
1,8psi (e.g. some Austin-Healey Sprite/Mg Midget). You can often =
recognise this pump by the 2BA screw (same size as the screws that hold =
the coil housing to the pump body) on the coil housing for the earth =
spade. If the pump is fitted near the petrol tank it should be a =
so-called pressure pump delivering 2,7psi (e.g. MGB) or 3,8psi =
(Austin-Healey 3000, Jaguar 6-cyl. cars MkII, E-type etc., Triumph Stag, =
Jensen-Healey a.o.). The high pressure pumps can be recognised by a =
smaller 4BA screw for the earth spade. The pressure is fixed and is =
controlled by the spring fitted under the diaphragm. All pumps are =
identical as far as the coil housing, points system, diaphragm are =
concerned. The differences are in the pump body but this has no effect =
on the pressure, mainly on the variation of delivery pressure and flow =
rate. Some cars have the h.p. pump fitted on the chassis open to the =
elements (e.g. MGB, A-H), others have it protected in the boot (e.g. =
J-H).<o:p></o:p></p><p>There are three types of spring, the low pressure =
1,8psi spring can be easily recognised as the wire is rather thin and it =
has more coils, the 2,7 an3,8psi springs have less coils and look =
identical to each other but the 3,8psi spring is slightly thicker and =
should have a (faint) dab of red paint.<o:p></o:p></p><p>If the SU-pumps =
would have been so unreliable as some of you claim, they would not have =
been used on such a large scale. Many millions of cars have had them in =
the 1930=C2=B4s through to the 1990=C2=B4s, from the humble Morris Minor =
to Rolls Royce.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Sure, the early ones did wear the =
points rather quickly because of arcing/spark erosion, but this was =
counteracted by proper maintenance which was usually every 1000 to =
3000miles in the 30=C2=B4s up to the 50=C2=B4s. The wear was =
significantly reduced by using a simple capacitor (very like the =
capacitor in the points distributor), then a diode and lately Burlen =
fitting a transil. The pumps are dual polarity except when a diode is =
fitted. <o:p></o:p></p><p>However spark erosion is not the main problem, =
that is electrolytic corrosion due to lack of use and dampish conditions =
under the cover because of improper ventilation like no tubes connected =
from the pump to a dry area of the car (boot) or no rubber band or =
friction tape on the joint of the cover and coil housing or damp =
storage.<o:p></o:p></p><p>I am not sure if the quality of the points you =
buy today is less than the old ones. I have never used them. I still =
have NOS points to replace worn points, but more often than once =
cleaning and repolishing the old points will =
do.<o:p></o:p></p><p><o:p> </o:p></p><p>Kees =
Oudesluijs<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p>Not trying to reinvent =
the wheel, David, just get a fuel pump that lasts. Others have had =
good service from points pumps like you, but I haven't. I'm not =
doing anything unusual; if you get them installed and they don't leak =
and they run that's about all you can do--there's no trick or secret to =
installing them that I know of. Mine just keep failing, with =
between a few hundred and up to 15K miles of service (this over about =
140,000 miles I've put on my BJ8). I will say I have driven =
through some serious downpours, so water entry into the switching =
compartment could be a problem, but some of the failures didn't get =
drowned.<o:p></o:p></p><p>The points can be problematic, else SU =
wouldn't have gone from:<o:p></o:p></p><p>1) no arc =
suppression<o:p></o:p></p><p>2) capacitor arc =
suppression<o:p></o:p></p><p>3) diode arc =
suppression<o:p></o:p></p><p>That is to say, SU wouldn't have gone to =
the expense and labor of installing capacitors and diodes if there =
wasn't some issue with reliability or longevity. I tried all =
three, with results as noted. I've installed the out-of-the-box, =
rebuilt and adjusted them myself, installed SS switching mechanism, used =
capacitors, diodes, TVSes, transistors and installed SU electronic =
out-of-the box with predictable results. I do recall your dad =
either writing or saying that they used to take the pumps out and =
service them--cleaning the points and adjusting the mechanism I =
presume--at 15K mile service when he worked at BMC (or was it BL, don't =
recall), so they aren't typically bulletproof forever. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p>Maybe I pissed the SU gods off somehow; though both my =
sets of SU carbs have been all but bulletproof, and the basic =
points-type in my BN2 has worked for a few hundred =
miles.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Bob<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
11/28/2018 9:50 AM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:healeydoc@gmail.com";>healeydoc@gmail.com</a> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Century",serif'>I do not =
understand the problem with the SU pump that everyone feels that they =
have to re invent the wheel. I have using the standard SU pump with =
points in my Healey for almost 75000 miles and never had a failure. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Century",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Century",serif'>We =
also have been installing the standard SU points pump here at the shop =
on every car we do for over 40 years <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Century",serif'>Everything =
from Healey=E2=80=99s, MG=E2=80=99s and Jaguar=E2=80=99s and had very =
few failures.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Century",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Century",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Century",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Century",serif'>David Nock<br></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:healeydoc@sbcglobal.net";><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Century",serif'>healeydoc@sbcglobal.net</span></a><=
span style=3D'font-family:"Century",serif'><br>209 948 8767<br></span><a =
href=3D"http://www.britishcarspecialists.com";><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Century",serif'>www.britishcarspecialists.com</span=
></a><span style=3D'font-family:"Century",serif'><br><br>Help us have =
our Founder Norman Nock inducteed into the <br>British Sportscar Hall of =
Fame, You can vote for your favorites <br>by visiting the site =
at.<br></span><a href=3D"http://www.britishsportscarhall.org";><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Century",serif'>www.britishsportscarhall.org</span>=
</a><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Century",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Century",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><=
/div></blockquote><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>___________________________=
____________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Support Team.Net <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
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o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><a =
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