Re: [Healeys] Brake issue

[Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>]

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As I recall Roger found that after using silicone brake fluid there was a
certain degree of swelling of the master cylinder seals, including the so
called  "recuperating seat". As a consequence of this the "recuperating"
passage to reservoir was not opening up when the piston was fully extended.
Going from memory Roger found that it was necessary to machine the master
cylinder body to provide more space for the recuperating seat and shim
washer.

The article was published in at least one of the national club mags.

I would think that the uncertainty of materials used in current seal sets
and brake fluids could very easily cause any seal to swell with similar
consequences.

M

On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 12:09 PM Michael Oritt <michael.oritt@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Michael--
>
> Do you remember the issue and/or can you point me toward it and its
> possible resolution?
>
> Best--Michael Oritt
>
> On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 10:11 AM Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Regarding pushrod free play.
>> Unfortunately the known problem with 100 master cylinders is internal to
>> the cylinder itself and is not resolved by ensuring that the push rod ha=
s
>> free play.
>> Roger Moment wrote an excellent, and of course exhaustive,  article on
>> the subject many years back after he encountered difficulties when using
>> silicon fluid.
>>
>> M
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:42 AM warthodson--- via Healeys, <
>> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I still suspect the lack of proper free play in the brake pedal & this
>>> is the easiest to check. Simply adjust the free play, temporarily, such
>>> that there is excessive free play & go for a test drive.
>>> Gary H
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Michael Oritt <michael.oritt@gmail.com>
>>> To: Kees Oudesluijs <coudesluijs@chello.nl>
>>>
>>> Kees--
>>>
>>> That is about the procedure I envisioned following.
>>>
>>> Since there has never been any pulling to one side I doubt the failure
>>> is at one particular corner, but the hoses are at least 15 years old an=
d
>>> deserve replacement.  I replaced the MC innards with a kit a year or so=
 ago
>>> but will go through it again and replace as necessary.  I'll also flush=
 the
>>> system thoroughly.
>>>
>>> Best--Michael Oritt
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 8:39 AM Kees Oudesluijs <coudesluijs@chello.nl>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Go through each component one by one. Start with new brake hoses if the=
y
>>> are still the old fashioned rubber/textile construction. How old are th=
ey
>>> by the way? Probably decades so renewal was probably well overdue. Also
>>> flush the entire brake system with fresh brake fluid as there may be so=
me
>>> debris in it somewhere.  Try again and if solved it may well have been
>>> collapsed inner wall of one or both of the tubes. If not solved adjust =
the
>>> rod on the MBC. Still not solved, renew or overhaul the MBC and adjust =
the
>>> rod.
>>> When rebuilding brake components do NOT use clean brake fluid but the
>>> special brake grease from At=C3=A9, Girling or equivalent.
>>> Overheating is unlikely as that will generally lead to complete loss of
>>> brakes.
>>> Kees Oudesluijs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>>>
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
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>>>
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>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com
>>>
>>>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sa=
ns ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">As I recall Roger found that after using =
silicone brake fluid there was a certain degree of swelling of the master c=
ylinder seals, including the so called=C2=A0 &quot;recuperating seat&quot;.=
 As a consequence of this the &quot;recuperating&quot; passage to reservoir=
 was not opening up when the piston was fully extended. <br></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size=
:small">Going from memory Roger found that it was necessary to machine the =
master cylinder body to provide more space for the recuperating seat and sh=
im washer.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic san=
s ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">The article was=
 published in at least one of the national club mags. <br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:=
small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sa=
ns ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">I would think that the uncertainty of mat=
erials used in current seal sets and brake fluids could very easily cause a=
ny seal to swell with similar consequences.</div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif=
;font-size:small">M<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 12:09 PM Michael Orit=
t &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com";>michael.oritt@gmail.com</a=
>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">M=
ichael--</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"><=
br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">Do you=
 remember the issue and/or can you point me toward it and its possible reso=
lution?</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"><b=
r></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">Best--M=
ichael Oritt</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cla=
ss=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 10:11 AM Michael Salter &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">michaelsalter@gmail=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Regarding pushrod free play.<div dir=3D"auto">Unfortu=
nately the known problem with 100 master cylinders is internal to the cylin=
der itself and is not resolved by ensuring that the push rod has free play.=
</div><div dir=3D"auto">Roger Moment wrote an excellent, and of course exha=
ustive,=C2=A0 article on the subject many years back after he encountered d=
ifficulties when using silicon fluid.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D=
"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:42 AM warthodson--- via =
Healeys, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">he=
aleys@autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204=
);padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"color:black;font:10pt arial">
<div>I still suspect the lack of proper free play in the brake pedal &amp; =
this is the easiest to check. Simply adjust the free play, temporarily, suc=
h that there is excessive free play &amp; go for a test drive.=C2=A0</div>

<div>Gary H</div>
<br>
<br>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Michael Oritt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com"; rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: Kees Oudesluijs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:coudesluijs@chello.nl"; rel=3D"nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank">coudesluijs@chello.nl</a>&gt;<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"gmail-m_-9155692559468666475gmail-m_7113786730106686978m_-891520=
7665016150380yiv1957992266">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-9155692559468666475gmail-m_7113786730106686978m_-891=
5207665016150380yiv1957992266gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">=
Kees--</div>

<div class=3D"gmail-m_-9155692559468666475gmail-m_7113786730106686978m_-891=
5207665016150380yiv1957992266gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">=
<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div class=3D"gmail-m_-9155692559468666475gmail-m_7113786730106686978m_-891=
5207665016150380yiv1957992266gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">=
That is about the procedure I envisioned following.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div>

<div class=3D"gmail-m_-9155692559468666475gmail-m_7113786730106686978m_-891=
5207665016150380yiv1957992266gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">=
<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div class=3D"gmail-m_-9155692559468666475gmail-m_7113786730106686978m_-891=
5207665016150380yiv1957992266gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">=
Since there has never been any pulling to one side I doubt the failure is a=
t one particular corner, but the hoses are at least 15 years old and deserv=
e replacement.=C2=A0 I replaced the MC innards with a kit a year or so ago =
but will go through it again and replace as necessary.=C2=A0 I&#39;ll also =
flush the system thoroughly.</div>

<div class=3D"gmail-m_-9155692559468666475gmail-m_7113786730106686978m_-891=
5207665016150380yiv1957992266gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">=
<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div class=3D"gmail-m_-9155692559468666475gmail-m_7113786730106686978m_-891=
5207665016150380yiv1957992266gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">=
Best--Michael Oritt</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-9155692559468666475gmail-m_7113786730106686978m_-891=
5207665016150380yiv1957992266gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-9155692559468666475gmail-m_7113786730106686978m_-891=
5207665016150380yiv1957992266yqt9413654283" id=3D"gmail-m_-9155692559468666=
475gmail-m_7113786730106686978m_-8915207665016150380yiv1957992266yqt66723">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-9155692559468666475gmail-m_7113786730106686978m_-891=
5207665016150380yiv1957992266gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 a=
t 8:39 AM Kees Oudesluijs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:coudesluijs@chello.nl"; rel=
=3D"noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank">coudes=
luijs@chello.nl</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail-m_-9155692559468666475gmail-m_711378673010668697=
8m_-8915207665016150380yiv1957992266gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
 =20
<div>
   =20
<div>Go through each component one by one. Start with new brake hoses
      if they are still the old fashioned rubber/textile construction.
      How old are they by the way? Probably decades so renewal was
      probably well overdue. Also flush the entire brake system with
      fresh brake fluid as there may be some debris in it somewhere.=C2=A0
      Try again and if solved it may well have been collapsed inner wall
      of one or both of the tubes. If not solved adjust the rod on the
      MBC. Still not solved, renew or overhaul the MBC and adjust the
      rod. <br clear=3D"none">
    </div>

   =20
<div>When rebuilding brake components do NOT use clean brake fluid but
      the special brake grease from At=C3=A9, Girling or equivalent.<br cle=
ar=3D"none">
    </div>

   =20
<div>Overheating is unlikely as that will generally lead to complete
      loss of brakes.</div>

   =20
<div>Kees Oudesluijs</div>

   =20
<div><br clear=3D"none">
    </div>

   =20
<div><br clear=3D"none">
    </div>

   =20
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-9155692559468666475gmail-m_7113786730106686978m_-891=
5207665016150380yiv1957992266gmail-m_2419550027455819460moz-cite-prefix"><b=
r clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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