Mayf
I found these compressor maps at this address:
http://www.turbocharged.com/main.htm
Is this the kind of information that I need?
John Beckett
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence E. & Cathy R. Mayfield <lemay@hiwaay.net>
To: John Beckett <landspeedracer@email.msn.com>; Lawrence E. & Cathy R.
Mayfield <lemay@hiwaay.net>; land-speed@autox.team.net
<land-speed@autox.team.net>
Date: Friday, October 08, 1999 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: Turbo's
>John, and any others interested. The Doctor is in.
>
>First thing is to know jow much horsepower you want or need to make. Fo me,
>I used programs I wrote myself specifically for my car. I used aerodynamic
>drag, rolling resistance and mechanical losses to determine how much horse
>power I needed to accomplish my speed goals. I did this for seeveral
>different altitudes with differing air temperatures and humidities. My goal
>is to have a car which will run better than 200 mph, any more than that is
>gravy for me. I determined that I needed about 600+ hp at the worst case.
>
>Now having the horsepower needed, I can figure the amount of fuel needed to
>meet that need. For me, 600 hp requires 330 lbs/hr of fuel. To get into
>lbs/min divide by 60 and get 5.5 lbs /min.
>
>To burn 5.5 lbs/min at a stoichmetric ratio multiply this by 14.1 for
>lbs/min of air. Ok, this is 77.6 lbs/min of air.
>
>Now find a compressor map! This is key and if you don't have it, you are
>done. But in my case, I have maps for T3, T4, ect that I got off the net.
>So you look at the map which is in lb/min and you see that the map has rpm,
>efficiencies, a surge limit and pressure ratios. If you have a map in cfm
>instaed of mass, then divide the lb/min by 0.07 to get cfm. A std T3 puts
>out only a maximum of about 35 lbm/min. In my case to use T3 std units then
>I have to run 2, actually I need 2.2 turbos, but rounding down = 2 or twin
>turbos. Because I am at the extreme limit of the T3s I will thrash the air
>pretty hard. Anyway, draw a line up from your air mass needs to intersect
>the map. Try to find a map that lets you meet the air mass requirement with
>the highest efficiency and lowest pressure ratio. I want to run about 15
>psi so this is a ratio of 2. I go accross the map until it intersects the
>air mass needs and see if it is within the map's efficiency island. In my
>case, the efficiency is way down which means that I will heat the air in
>compressing it because it takes a lot of rpms to develop the pressure. It
>means that when my car is checked out that I will need to upgrade to a
>hybrid T3/T4 unit which has a T3 turbine wheel and a T4 compressor whell
>and scroll housing and back plate.
>
>This is how I got to twin turbos. And I figured it another way: the stock
>T3 will support about 350 hp in a 2.3L four cylinder so two of them will
>work on a motor of approximately twice the displacement. This makes a
>pretty good check.
>
>As to your question, you might figure something like this. Hmmmm a 5.9L
>diesel turns at 3000 rpm so it ought to support a smaller motor turning at
>higher speed. I am not much on diesels but as I understand it they are
>essentially two strokes and so fire on each stroke. If not then what
>follows needs to be factored by two upwards. So a 5.9L turbo running at
>3000 rpm should support a 5.9L 4 stroke at 6000 rpm. But it really depends
>on the compressor map. So If you cannot get one for that specific turbo,
>I'sd say you are maybe wasting your time.
>
>I would suggest you try to find the turbo maps and look at T3 Super 60s
>from Buick vehicles. Remember they turbo their Buick Grand National V6
>(3.8L) so two of them should handle just about anything you asked for.
>These however do not have the integral waste gates so you have to install
>something.
>
>Thats another reason I used the T-bird T3s, built in waste gate and
actuator.
>
>If your air mass requirement become so high at the upper rpm limits of your
>motor, then build horsepower at a lower rpm and gear accordingly. I built a
>horsepower/torque curve for my motor and then used the different drag codes
>to determine what geaing would be best for my motor combination.
>
>The Doctor has left the building.
>
>mayf
>At 07:07 PM 10/7/99 -0400, John Beckett wrote:
>> Mayf
>>
>> Being a newbe to turbo's...I've got lots of questions. I like the idea
>>of using junk yard turbo's, but I was under the impression that any given
>>turbo will only flow just so much air and therefor a maximum amount of HP.
>>So I guess 325 HP out of a T03 sounds like a lot. Are there modifications
>>that will increase HP numbers? How would one figure the potential HP from
>>say a Cummins 5.9 diesel turbo?
>>
>> I have also heard about Trick Flow valve guide problems...only on
Chevy
>>heads...but maybe the Fords are the same. Just bad guide material?
>>
>> John
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Lawrence E. & Cathy R. Mayfield <lemay@hiwaay.net>
>>To: John Beckett <johnbeck@blueridge.cc.nc.us>; Lawrence E. & Cathy R.
>>Mayfield <lemay@hiwaay.net>; land-speed@autox.team.net
>><land-speed@autox.team.net>
>>Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 4:27 PM
>>Subject: Re: Net Quietness
>>
>>
>>>John, I am using two T03 units from 85 T-bird. I have done enough
>>>calculations that show at a pressure ratio of 2 (1 atmosphere boost)
these
>>>will suffice to about 6500 rpm and at B'ville altitude. With the chosen
>>>cam 226/210 ls 110 and compression at 8.5 all may calcs say about 650 hp.
>>>Will be using World Products Senior Al heads (maybe trick flow but I hear
>>>they have valve guide problems). I will have one TB hooked up and One MAF
>>>but running large injectors > 55lbs/hr. Planning on SpeedBrain for ECU so
>>>will have complete data logging and mod capability. As to wheels, no I do
>>>not want steel wheels, I want alloy. I plan on Weld Prostars for racing
but
>>>I need a couple of ?? just to put it on the ground so I can roll it
around
>>>better.
>>>
>>>mayf
>>>
>>>At 10:03 AM 10/7/99 -0400, John Beckett wrote:
>>>>Wow, that got em stirred up. Might look into NASCAR type wheels for your
>>>>project. I believe they make them with the proper bolt patern, diameter
>>and
>>>>back spacing. What type and size turbos are you using on your Alpine?
>>>>
>>>>At 04:10 PM 10/6/99, Lawrence E. & Cathy R. Mayfield wrote:
>>>>>Too darn quiet on the list! What's going on? Everybody mad at each
other?
>>>>>Or what? Did my first TIG aluminum welding yesterday. What a hoot!
Looked
>>>>>like a bunch of angry chickens drizzled all over it. But today, a
>>different
>>>>>story! I cranked the amps up, polished the weld area with a scuff pad
and
>>>>>went at it. Most welds pretty good (oh, I am making my own twin
throttle
>>>>>body upper manifold for my twin turbo setup). I mean it looks homemade
>>but
>>>>>not too bad.
>>>>>
>>>>>I need some wheels for my car. I need something 10 inches wide with 5
on
>>>>>4.5 stud spacing and 6 inch (5.5 ok) backspacing. These are just to get
>>the
>>>>>car on some rear tires so I can determine the shock mounting height,
etc.
>>>>>It's already on the front tires. Anybody on the list have anything they
>>>>>might part with? Oh, they need to have the 11/16 stud holes, not
tapered
>>>>>nuts, because I am using Mark Williams 5/8 inch studs (HUGE).
>>>>>
>>>>>Well, this otta be nuf to start some conversation...especially my
welding
>>>>>expertise.
>>>>>
>>>>>mayf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>L.E. Mayfield
>>>>>124 Maximillion Drive
>>>>>Madison, Al. 35758-8171
>>>>>1-256-837-1051
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.hsv.tis.net/~mayfield
>>>>>
>>>>>DrMayf@AOL.com
>>>>>lemay@hiwaay.net <<<<preferred
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Bonneville Land Speed Racer, '66 Hydroplane Drag Boat (390 FE)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>L.E. Mayfield
>>>124 Maximillion Drive
>>>Madison, Al. 35758-8171
>>>1-256-837-1051
>>>
>>>http://www.hsv.tis.net/~mayfield
>>>
>>>DrMayf@AOL.com
>>>lemay@hiwaay.net <<<<preferred
>>>
>>>
>>>Bonneville Land Speed Racer, '66 Hydroplane Drag Boat (390 FE)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>L.E. Mayfield
>124 Maximillion Drive
>Madison, Al. 35758-8171
>1-256-837-1051
>
>http://www.hsv.tis.net/~mayfield
>
>DrMayf@AOL.com
>lemay@hiwaay.net <<<<preferred
>
>
>Bonneville Land Speed Racer, '66 Hydroplane Drag Boat (390 FE)
|