Well here's my take on all this.
Steve's definition is the one currently used by people trying to sell cars
to the US. As car makers blend styles and functionality and marketers use
what ever word they think will people to buy things, the traditional
definitions get lost.
As I'm into old English cars, and I'm a bit of stickler for language, I use
the old English definition. Good illustrations are Jaguar XKs and Porsche
356's. The factory produced concurrently roadsters, convertibles (or
Drophead coupes) and coupes.
Roadster - an open car having with minimal weather protection, built for
lightness and speed. As the sixties came on and "sports cars" got more
civilized some would apply this only to cars with stow-away tops and
sidescreens. As Frank applies this term to Spridgets with Roll-up windows,
but detachable tops, we can see that this definition gets a little fuzzy.
XK120 Roadsters, Porsche 356 "speedsters" (note that Speedster is the name
the factory used for the Model, an English book I have refers to this as
"the roadster version") Italian cars of this type may be referred to as a
Barchetta - literally "little boat." I believe this is after the little
"vaporettos" that plied the waters around Venice, they open cockpits, much
like a sports racer. (I didn't know about the "sedan" reference to boats in
the dictionary until I added it at the end.- I'm not sure if that makes any
difference) An old-timer once described a roadster as a motorcycle with a
body.
Coupe - (in the "European" version of this term there is an accent on the
final e and it is pronounced "coop-ay" from the French "to cut", as in a
cut-down car; over here we just say "coop") Any car with a fixed roof and
two seats. Ah, you say but what about "plus two" cars - this is where the
ASE definition gets that "maximum space behind the front seats" bit. Did
you know that Euro-spec first-generation RX-7's had a little rear "+2"
seat in them and that they raced as "saloon cars" in Britain because of
this? As did some 911's, etc. Most of us would describe these cars as
coupes. But would you call a two-door Neon a coupe? (DiamlerChrysler does)
Yet it easily seats two adults in the back seat. Doesn't meet the ASE
definition either. The SCCA has it's own definition. This starts to get a
little fuzzy too.
By this definition an MGB GT isn't a coupe - it's a GT (Something else,
this seems to be made-up term used by European automakers to avoid calling
their fixed-roof "plus-two" seating cars saloons or sedans)
Convertible - (Originally "Convertible Coupe" or "Drophead Coupe") this was
a car that could be converted from an open car to a closed car. Note that a
roadster with it's top up was not considered a closed car. I'll take you
for a ride in my sidescreen car to show you what I mean, if you like. Now
we use the term to refer to any car with a fabric roof, but "in the day" a
four seat open car would have been called a Tourer. (Further confusing t
hings, BMW now uses the term "Tourer" in Europe to refer to an estate or
station wagon) XK Drophead coupes were factory built as soft tops but were
intended for road use as "sporty" cars rather than for racing which was
left to the lighter roadster. Same goes for 356's. Some MGTA's (roadsters)
were bodied by Tickford as three-position Drophead Coupes (closed,
half-closed {with kind of a targa-top effect} and fully open.) There is one
of these that makes the rounds of the US concours shows and was cleaning up
couple of yeas ago. Note that the reference made to the big Healey (with
plus two seating) earlier in this thread used the term "convertible" but
not Convertible coupe; I guess this starts to blur also.
The only Modern roadsters (in production, concept roadsters abound) by
these definitions, would be the original Viper RT/10 (yes, it had
sidescreens) the Lotus Elise (stowaway top), and the Renault roadster (the
name escapes me.) I think the Modern use of the term roadster as any
open-two seater really started up with the Viper, when Chrysler produced a
roadster for the first time in years. The term "roadster" evokes a certain
sporty, nostalgic image that sells well to the target market for the
current crop of Convertible Coupes. Most of that market is a bit old and
soft for something as basic and elemental as a real roadster. Look at the
price range.(lot's of profit at that end of the market too.) The sad thing
is only people with a budget for multiple cars would want a real roadster,
since they are impractical as "only" cars, but the people who can afford
two cars are often at an age when they want something a little softer.
The new SLK has to be called a convertible coupe, in that it has more
ability to convert from truly closed to truly open than any coupe in
history.
When I want to know what words mean, I look them up in the dictionary, so I
thought I'd add that too. By the definition below, I suppose those 30's
limousine things with the passengers enclosed and the driver out in front,
in the open, could be called coupes as well. It's not exactly in line with
the definitions I gave above, but here they are verbatim:
Merriam-Webster http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary
Main Entry: cou.pe
Variant(s): or coupe /ku-'pA, 2 often 'kup/
Function: noun
Etymology: French coupe, from past participle of couper to cut, strike
Date: 1834
1 : a four-wheeled closed horse-drawn carriage for two persons inside with
an outside seat for the driver in front
2 usually coupe : a 2-door automobile often seating only two persons; also
: one with a tight-spaced rear seat -- compare SEDAN
Main Entry: 1con.vert.ible
Pronunciation: k&n-'v&r-t&-b&l
Function: adjective
Date: 14th century
1 : capable of being converted
2 : having a top that may be lowered or removed <convertible coupe>
3 : capable of being exchanged for a specified equivalent (as another
currency or security) <a bond convertible to 12 shares of common stock
Main Entry: road.ster
Pronunciation: 'rOd-st&r
Function: noun
Date: 1818
1 a : a horse for riding or driving on roads b : a utility saddle horse of
the hackney type
2 a : a light carriage : BUGGY b : an automobile with an open body that
seats two and has a folding fabric top and a luggage compartment in the
rear
Main Entry: se.dan
Pronunciation: si-'dan
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
Date: 1635
1 : a portable often covered chair that is designed to carry one person and
that is borne on poles by two men
2 a : a 2- or 4-door automobile seating 4 or more persons and usually
having a permanent top -- compare COUPE b : a motorboat having one
passenger compartment
Sorry for the length
Phil Vanner
Mk1 Midget
-----Original Message-----
From: Swift Justice [SMTP:samesq@pacbell.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 1:15 PM
To: Ajhsys@aol.com
Cc: samesq@pacbell.net; spridgets@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: Roadster vs Convertible terminology
Ajhsys@aol.com wrote:
> Okay Steve, then where does the term "drophead" fit in?
I've most often heard the term "drophead coupe" in reference to Jaguars.
My best guess is that it refers to a coupe that was made into a convertible
by the factory. (a drop head) I don't know if our bretheren across the
pond
use the same definition of a coupe as the ASE does, which, as I mentioned,
is a specified volume of cubic feet behind the front seats (I can never
remember that darn number) This area can include a back seat, as long as
it
stays within the volume restriction. Hence the Jaguar e-type coupes, and
more modern examples being the Subaru XT coupe and the Hyundai Scoupe,
which
incidentally have a back seat or "parcel shelf" depending on your trim
level.
Steve.
|