Nah, you'll never end this particular debate. The very nerve of thinking
you could....
You've struck a chord with me this time, as I share your view that many
cars today are so perfectly prepared, etc, and that it's a little false. I
like to build and run race cars, not show cars. I can't help but feel
inadequate when I look at the professionally restored cars that have fit
and finish that I can't match. But my cars look just like race cars do and
did, I think. So that makes me happy. Maybe when I'm rich and retired my
car will look like a show car for more than just before the first track
session after a reskin, chassis and body paint job...no, on second thought,
I kind of like the way it looks...
Brian
At 02:09 PM 7/18/01 -0400, Mike Cobine wrote:
>Well, since I started this, maybe I should end it.
>
>
>
>My questions are based on a certain sickness I have for history. I feel
>there is reasons to preserve history, and there are reasons to ignore it.
>But if you say you are preserving it, then you should preserve it, and not
>change it to match your perception.
>
>Most of my background includes Corvettes, so I'll use that as examples.
>
>Back in the '70s, people used to show their Corvettes and brag about the
>history of the car. For example, you might have a placard at a show that
>read: '65 Corvette, bought new, ran local drags in SS/A, changed 327 to 427
>in '66, won divisionals, change to 454 in '70, won Winternationals. Now on
>IMCA show circuit, won Best of Show in '72....
>
>Or one like: '63 Corvette, original FI, bought '64 by Sam Smith and raced in
>hillclimbs and local autocross, bought '66 by Bill Jones and place 3rd
>Central Division SCCA road racing, 1st Central Division 1969. Won region
>championship in '71 and '72.
>
>But today, all you see are restored cars that look like they belong on the
>showroom floor. The history of those cars have been lost. The importance
>of those cars was not how Bob Smith Chevrolet sold the car, but what
>happened afterwards.
>
>Which brings us to why vintage racing is important, it keeps that history
>alive. A car driven by Bob Bondurant or Sterling Moss is given a lot of
>attention, but a car driven by Dick Durant, Pete Dock, or Bob Spooner are
>not ignored and tossed like trash, either. They may not get as much
>attention as Mark Donohue's AMC cars, but they are not considered junk and
>considered only as a parts car for a street car.
>
>
>However, what has happened in Corvettes with restorations, is that old
>restorations from the '70s and early '80s are now being confused as
>"original" cars.
>
>You ask, so?
>
>Restoration usually destroys originality, as so well pointed out here how
>the parts off of one car can be used as a basis for another, as original
>parts are often tossed in favor of new reproduction parts that are prettier.
>
>After awhile, you have multiple cars of the same (as in vintage race cars)
>or you have cars that bear only a sight resemblance to the original car due
>to all the non-original parts.
>
>Have any of you seen the #57 Heinz Confederate Flag Corvette or the
>Greenwood Stars and Stripes Corvettes? How about #1 & #6 DeLorenzo/Thompson
>Owens-Corning Corvettes? Perfect in everyway.
>
>Except that on of the Owens-Corning cars was pieced together body parts on a
>'67 race car. #57 was created from a wrecked street car.
>
>Look at those cars today, and they look perfect with perfect body panels,
>with perfect details.
>
>Did any of you build cars like that in the '60s or '70s?
>
>And so people who research originality to determine how things were really
>done, in racing and in production street cars, get a false source of
>information.
>
>Many think things done in 20 year old restorations were how the factory did
>them, when they really didn't.
>
>
>You ask, so??
>
>If you are into restoring, into preserving, into keeping the value of your
>car at a given level or increasing, these all matter. You need a template,
>and old, original cars are that template to compare to.
>
>
>If you consider your car something to use, use up, then toss when done, it
>doesn't matter.
>
>If you say you are a rolling museum, then it matters. If it is just a neat
>car, then it doesn't.
>
>
>I have nothing against racing old cars. I raced an old car in current
>times, in current classes. We raced a TR-3B in the late '70s and early
>'80s. We raced a '66 Corvette in the late '80s and early '90s. We had a
>lot of fun. We had after race parties. We had camaraderie. We had
>friendship. We often borrowed parts.
>
>But I never tried to pass it off as a rolling museum. I never tried to say
>it was just like the ones on the track with Penske, Wintersteen, Donohue,
>Guldstrand, and a host of others.
>
>As to no contact, I think by allowing cars built today, by guys who simply
>want to rub shoulders rather than locate an old race car (they are out there
>and cheap), you have more trading paint than in current classes where old
>cars run.
>
>In two vintage races I was in, the first had two cars in a field of 20 hit.
>The second had 5 incidents in a field of 40. In 6 years of regular SCCA
>racing with the '66, I had contact with someone twice. I came back to find
>tire marks on a rear quarter. Either I cut him a bit tight or he ran a bit
>wide in Turn 5 at Moroso. The other time was tangling with a GT Pinto at
>Summit Point and those GT Pinto guys were so out of hand, the Chief Steward
>was ready to send them all home.
>
>I just think there are a lot of excuses that are not valid in vintage
>racing. There are lots of old vintage race cars to find. They really don't
>need to look like a museum, they need to look real. Like they did back
>then. And if your desire is to build and race a Datsun 510 like Paul Newman
>did, then go. Take that 510 and race in SCCA, EMRA, MWCSCC, or wherever.
>Just don't pretend that one you built today is a vintage race car.
>
>Otherwise, people will look and say, "wow, they used Aeroquip and MSD back
>then. They knew about running dry sumps and Wilwoods and JFZ and using
>header wrap."
>
>did you really build like that? People today think so.
Brian Evans
Director, Canada
MCI Wholesale Internet Services
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