Okay, I hate to drag this out any further than it already has been, and I was
hoping not to have to get
Gary, I've reread the whole thread (a couple of times) and I don't come to the
same conclusions as you.
John's first post to the list was simply:
"Wanted: Solid street or street/competition roadster. I want a good car, so no
rust buckets or beaters.
Right money for the right car."
That's pretty simple and I don't see any attitude there.
And then we get stuff like:
"There is a great solid roadster you can have for cheap at camp 7 on Mt.
Everest. Oh I am sorry,it might
help if you said where you lived. Just a little jab."
Followed by a dissertation on the different types of roadsters. I don't
consider that really friendly.
So then Mike responds with a pretty straightforward:
"If I wanted to specify a particular model or level of prep, I would've. As I
said, the right money for the
right car. I'll know it when I see it. Show me what you have, and I'll decide
if I want to make an offer."
I know that to some people that sounds like an attitude, but I've met people at
lumber yards that had to
know exactly what grade of wood I wanted before they would show me anything,
when all I wanted was some
plywood to cover a hole in the yard, and it preally pissed me off. My feeling
was "Can I just look at your
plywood and I'll figure it out from there?"
And then some people started getting snotty. To give credit where it's due,
some people actually responded
to John's request with THE ACTUAL INFORMATION HE HAD ASKED FOR!
After a certain number of rude responses, John tried to explain that he would
consider any car, anywhere, he
would come pick it up. By this time it's obvious that he's getting upset
playing 20 Questions when he has
already provided all the information he should have needed. Personally, I don't
But then there is this FLOOD of insulting notes with stuff like:
"FYI, "genius" the 1600 is an "R" motor" (unless it's an L16 conversion like
MANY people have done)
"she doesn't like arrogant people [most Roadsters don't]"
"People try to help and you thumb them. I have a different finger for you!!"
"With your strong opinions and ability to make friends quickly, I'm sure you
will be successful."
"Buy BMW please!"
"I hereby request that John Mikes be forceably removed from the Datsun Roadster
List." (BTW, he's been on
the list longer than you have.)
I'm not privy to any off-list responses that John made, so I can't say anything
about that. But if I
suddenly got slammed by a bunch of people when all I was trying to do was find
a car, I'd probably be pretty
The bottom line, Gary, is that I still believe a bunch of people on this list
were rude to him without
provocation, and that upsets me. One of the main things that has distinguished
this list from so many of the
others is that we are considered a friendly group. We used to get comments from
new list members about this
(although I haven't seen too many of those comments lately). This sure didn't
look like our best moment to
Even though I feel very strongly about this, I'm not going to hold any grudges.
I can like people and still
not approve of all their actions. I would just like to request that we all try
to be more civil to each
other. We seem to be willing to say things in email that we would never think
of saying to a person's face.
That needs to change.
> I think that if you go back and read through the thread on this subject,
>you'll detect a pretty snotty
> attitude on the part of Mr. Mikes. The number of people whom he rubbed the
>wrong way far outnumber the
> folks who think he was just misunderstood (judging by the responses). Other
>folks have inquired to the
> list after Roadsters available for sale without getting all uppity when, in
>the interest of being able
> to help them more effectively, they are asked to provide more information.
>This guy also shot back some
> pretty snappy offline responses, I understand (such as "Doesn't that big "L"
>on your forehead bother
> you?") - no way to make friends among a group of enthusiasts to whom you are
>going for help.
> The dumping didn't start when he didn't specifically say where he is located
>- it started when he got
> all smart@$$ about even being asked, coming off with this "Just show me what
>you've got and I'll buy it
> if I like it, then unsubscribe from the list" stuff. It's not like there are
>a bunch of desperate
> Roadster owners out there just dying for someone to please come and buy their
>car. Good Roadsters are
> hard to find, and though we are all somewhat biased on this issue - worth
>looking for. It is all well
> and good to have a broad band of acceptance in what model, year, level of
>modification, etc. that one
> would be willing to buy, but it is incumbent upon a purchaser to go looking,
>not to expect folks to come
> begging to him "Please, is my car worthy of your attention?". He displayed a
>rather serious level of
> uppityness when he said "Let me see if I can make this clear to all of you. I
>want a roadster. I know
> about roadsters." Maybe he does know about Roadsters, and none of us will
>blame him for wanting a
> Roadster, but is that any way to talk?
> The bottom line is: Attitude counts for a lot in this world, and you can't
>expect to be treated any
> better than you treat other folks. Mr. Mikes' attitude sucked, and that's
>what pissed people off.
> Gary McCormick
> San Josť, CA
> Gordon Glasgow wrote:
> > Okay, so I'm catching up on my email after having not been on for a couple
>of days, so maybe this
> > thread has already died. But I have to speak up on this.
> > WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE?
> > Is it the heat, or pre-Shasta stress or what? A guy (who is known to those
>of us who have been on
> > this list for a while) comes on and says he is looking for a roadster. Any
>decent street roadster.
> > And because he doesn't say specifically where he's located, everybody
>starts dumping on him! And
> > when he replies that it doesn't matter, he'll unload his race car from the
>trailer and come get it
> > if it's the right car, you dump on him some more!
> > I've never seen this kind of CRAP on this list before and I hope I never
>see it again! What the hell
> > do you think this is, a Porsche list? What do you think the lurkers on the
>list think of this? Do
> > you think this encourages them to post questions? This is an embarrassment
>to the list. I think you
> > guys all owe an apology to both John and this list for your attitudes.
> > --
> > Gordon Glasgow
> > http://www.gordon-glasgow.org