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RE: Luminition Ignition/Rev Limiter

To: FOT@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: Luminition Ignition/Rev Limiter
From: Bill Babcock <BillB@bnj.com>
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:51:58 -0700
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That's a fairly common problem with electronic ignition systems and rev
limiters. Generally they either work perfectly from the day you unwrap them,
or they become one more gremlin that you have to waste time with. My engine
seems to run a little better with electronic ignition, and the rev limiter
is nice to have, but I switched back to a dual point distributor and a Delco
coil after a few funny problems that I couldn't be sure wouldn't surface
again. In one case I was getting a low RPM miss and a very warm coil. I
added a ballast resistor (contrary to the instructions) and it went away.
Another time my rev limiter seemed to be wandering, cutting out as low as
5200 and as high as 6200. Replacing the unit cured it, and I was able to
remove the ballast resistor without the low speed miss returning (though I
had swapped the unit and the coil before adding the ballast resistor with no
change in behavior). 
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: Roger Beasley [mailto:beeline@iline.com]
Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 7:38 AM
To: FOT@autox.team.net
Cc: Phillip Babcock
Subject: Fw: Luminition Ignition/Rev Limiter



Amici,

I don't know how many of you are running rev limiters.  The text below
details some of my recent (and first) experience with a limiter, and the
manufacturer's response.  

I have been kicking myself for screwing up six or seven race weekends while
I fooled around with this problem, but it all goes back to lack of knowledge
of the product on my part.  That, and not really thinking out the problem
very well.  I had convinced myself that it couldn't be the rev limiter
because it didn't act like I thought a rev limiter would.

My question to the group is, how much cushion if any, do you set into the
limit?  If your target shift point is 6,000rpm, where do you set the
limiter?

----------
From: Adrian Goodsell <autocar@dircon.co.uk>
To: beeline@iline.com
Subject: Re: Luminition Ignition/Rev Limiter
Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 11:50 AM

Mr Beasley  The Lumenition Rev Limiter is a full cut device designed to cut
all sparks above the set rev limit.  To that end it will prevent an
acceleration over revving but will not prevent a mechanical driven over rev
such as selecting 2nd instead of 4th or an inertial effect.  The symptoms
you describe may be an effect of the coil waveform on the device.  It is
possible that the particular characteristics of coil, leads, spark gap and
combustion requirements are causing the coil negative waveform to feedback
extra signals into the rev limiter that trick it into seeing a higher engine
speed than real.  I have seen this on some occasions but it does not appear
to be predictable.  It may be that something you have changed recently has
affected this if the system was operating correctly when first fitted.
Possibly altering spark gaps or a different coil may have an effect.  When
seen it may only happen whilst the engine is under load and the rev limiter
reads the rpm correctly if there is no load on the engine.  The other
possibility is that the rev limiter is operating at its set rpm but the coil
is still producing a spark (even with its voltage limited) enough to fire
the combustion.  This can occur with high energy coils or with the engine at
light loads.  Even limited a standard coil may provide a 3 to 4 Kv spark
which can be just enough to fire a light mixture.  A rolling road with
ignition scope facilities may be able to further trace exactly what is
happening.  When the rev limiter cuts in the ignition trace will change from
the normal pattern to a square low voltage pattern.  The coil negative
pattern may show signs of multi sparking or high voltage noise.  If the
problem persists we do have a Micro Dynamics rev limiter which offers
similar performance but has a slightly different input filter which may
operate more successfully with your particular setup.  Regards  Customer
Support  

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Beasley <beeline@iline.com <mailto:beeline@iline.com>>
To: autocar@denaploy.co.uk <mailto:autocar@denaploy.co.uk>
<autocar@denaploy.co.uk <mailto:autocar@denaploy.co.uk>>
Date: Monday, April 19, 1999 8:30 PM
Subject: Luminition Ignition/Rev Limiter

Dear Sirs:

Sometime last year, I purchased a Luminition amplifier kit and rev limiter
from your American distributor, XK's Unlimited.  The units were installed on
my vintage Triumph TR4 racecar.  

Initially, all was well with the unit but after some subsequent work due to
cracked intake manifold, etc, the rev limiter must have inadvertently been
reset to a lower limit.  For some time and a number of race meetings, the
car would pull strongly to 5100 rpm whereupon, it began to burbble or "knit"
as my tuner put it.  At that point, I chose to shift.  But if pressed, I was
able to pull through on up near the desired redline of 6000.  The problem
was not so pronounced in first and second gear as in third and fourth.  

Because of the ability to pull on up past the initial point where engine
miss began, I assumed it was a carbueration problem.  However, this past
weekend, I made an appointment with my engine builder for a test day at a
nearby track.  After much experimentation with mixture and no improvement,
he finally decided to eliminate the rev limiter from the equation.  The
limiter proved to be the problem as without it, the engine would pull
strongly up the range to the desired limit.  Reattachment of the limiter
brought back the problem.  We further experimented with increasing the
adjustment of the limiter until it only began to affect the engine at
approximately 6400 rpm allowing for a cushion on the normal 6000 working
limit.

My question is this, how exactly does the unit work to limit revs?  Is it an
extremely soft cut which is designed to allow an additional amount of revs
after the initial onset?  The main use I have for a limiter is to prevent
zinging the engine in case of a missed shift.  And, I don't wish to come up
against the limiter on each shift.  Am I putting your unit to its proper
application?

Roger Beasley
Cape Coral, Fl
1962 TR4 Racecar





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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=290284415-03051999>That's 
a fairly common problem with electronic ignition systems and rev limiters. 
Generally they either work perfec</SPAN></FONT><FONT 
face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=290284415-03051999><FONT 
color=#0000ff face=Arial>tly&nbsp;from the day you unwrap them, or they become 
one more gremlin that you have to waste time with. My engine seems to run a 
little better with electronic ignition, and the rev limiter is nice to have, 
but 
I switched back to a dual point distributor and a Delco coil after a few funny 
problems that I couldn't be sure wouldn't surface again. In one case I was 
getting a low RPM miss and a very warm coil. I added a ballast resistor 
(contrary to the instructions) and it went away. Another time my rev limiter 
seemed to be wandering, cutting out as low as 5200 and as high as 6200. 
Replacing the unit cured it, and I was able to remove the ballast resistor 
without the low speed miss returning (though I had swapped the unit and the 
coil 
before adding the ballast resistor with no change in behavior). 
</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=2><SPAN 
class=290284415-03051999></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=2><SPAN 
class=290284415-03051999></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=2><SPAN 
class=290284415-03051999>&nbsp;</SPAN>-----Original 
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> 
Roger Beasley [mailto:beeline@iline.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 03, 1999 
7:38 AM<BR><B>To:</B> FOT@autox.team.net<BR><B>Cc:</B> Phillip 
Babcock<BR><B>Subject:</B> Fw: Luminition Ignition/Rev 
Limiter<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"></FONT>
  <P><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=2>Amici,<BR><BR>I don't know how many 
  of you are running rev limiters. &nbsp;The text below details some of my 
  recent (and first) experience with a limiter, and the manufacturer's 
response. 
  &nbsp;<BR><BR>I have been kicking myself for screwing up six or seven race 
  weekends while I fooled around with this problem, but it all goes back to 
lack 
  of knowledge of the product on my part. &nbsp;That, and not really thinking 
  out the problem very well. &nbsp;I had convinced myself that it couldn't be 
  the rev limiter because it didn't act like <U>I thought </U>a rev limiter 
  would.<BR><BR>My question to the group is, how much cushion if any, do you 
set 
  into the limit? &nbsp;If your target shift point is 6,000rpm, where do you 
set 
  the limiter?<BR><BR>----------<BR>From: Adrian Goodsell &lt;<FONT 
  color=#0000ff><U>autocar@dircon.co.uk</U><FONT color=#000000>&gt;<BR>To: 
<FONT 
  color=#0000ff><U>beeline@iline.com</U><FONT color=#000000><BR>Subject: Re: 
  Luminition Ignition/Rev Limiter<BR>Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 11:50 
  AM<BR><BR>Mr Beasley<FONT size=3> &nbsp;<FONT size=2>The Lumenition Rev 
  Limiter is a full cut device designed to cut all sparks above the set rev 
  limit. &nbsp;To that end it will prevent an acceleration over revving but 
will 
  not prevent a mechanical driven over rev such as selecting 2nd instead of 4th 
  or an inertial effect.<FONT size=3> &nbsp;<FONT size=2>The symptoms you 
  describe may be an effect of the coil waveform on the device. &nbsp;It is 
  possible that the particular characteristics of coil, leads, spark gap and 
  combustion requirements are causing the coil negative waveform to feedback 
  extra signals into the rev limiter that trick it into seeing a higher engine 
  speed than real. &nbsp;I have seen this on some occasions but it does not 
  appear to be predictable. &nbsp;It may be that something you have changed 
  recently has affected this if the system was operating correctly when first 
  fitted. &nbsp;Possibly altering spark gaps or a different coil may have an 
  effect. &nbsp;When seen it may only happen whilst the engine is under load 
and 
  the rev limiter reads the rpm correctly if there is no load on the 
  engine.<FONT size=3> &nbsp;<FONT size=2>The other possibility is that the rev 
  limiter is operating at its set rpm but the coil is still producing a spark 
  (even with its voltage limited) enough to fire the combustion. &nbsp;This can 
  occur with high energy coils or with the engine at light loads. &nbsp;Even 
  limited a standard coil may provide a 3 to 4 Kv spark which can be just 
enough 
  to fire a light mixture.<FONT size=3> &nbsp;<FONT size=2>A rolling road with 
  ignition scope facilities may be able to further trace exactly what is 
  happening. &nbsp;When the rev limiter cuts in the ignition trace will change 
  from the normal pattern to a square low voltage pattern. &nbsp;The coil 
  negative pattern may show signs of multi sparking or high voltage noise.<FONT 
  size=3> &nbsp;<FONT size=2>If the problem persists we do have a Micro 
Dynamics 
  rev limiter which offers similar performance but has a slightly different 
  input filter which may operate more successfully with your particular 
  setup.<FONT size=3> &nbsp;<FONT size=2>Regards<FONT size=3> &nbsp;<FONT 
  size=2>Customer Support<FONT size=3> &nbsp;</P>
  <P><FONT size=2><B>-----Original Message-----</B><BR><B>From:</B> Roger 
  Beasley &lt;<FONT color=#0000ff><U>beeline@iline.com</U><FONT color=#000000> 
  &lt;<FONT color=#0000ff><U>mailto:beeline@iline.com</U><FONT 
  color=#000000>&gt;&gt;<BR><B>To: </B><FONT 
  color=#0000ff><U>autocar@denaploy.co.uk</U><FONT color=#000000> &lt;<FONT 
  color=#0000ff><U>mailto:autocar@denaploy.co.uk</U><FONT color=#000000>&gt; 
  &lt;<FONT color=#0000ff><U>autocar@denaploy.co.uk</U><FONT color=#000000> 
  &lt;<FONT color=#0000ff><U>mailto:autocar@denaploy.co.uk</U><FONT 
  color=#000000>&gt;&gt;<BR><B>Date:</B> Monday, April 19, 1999 8:30 
  PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Luminition Ignition/Rev Limiter<BR><BR>Dear 
  Sirs:<BR><BR>Sometime last year, I purchased a Luminition amplifier kit and 
  rev limiter from your American distributor, XK's Unlimited. &nbsp;The units 
  were installed on my vintage Triumph TR4 racecar. &nbsp;<BR><BR>Initially, 
all 
  was well with the unit but after some subsequent work due to cracked intake 
  manifold, etc, the rev limiter must have inadvertently been reset to a lower 
  limit. &nbsp;For some time and a number of race meetings, the car would pull 
  strongly to 5100 rpm whereupon, it began to burbble or "knit" as my tuner put 
  it. &nbsp;At that point, I chose to shift. &nbsp;But if pressed, I was able 
to 
  pull through on up near the desired redline of 6000. &nbsp;The problem was 
not 
  so pronounced in first and second gear as in third and fourth. 
  &nbsp;<BR><BR>Because of the ability to pull on up past the initial point 
  where engine miss began, I assumed it was a carbueration problem. 
  &nbsp;However, this past weekend, I made an appointment with my engine 
builder 
  for a test day at a nearby track. &nbsp;After much experimentation with 
  mixture and no improvement, he finally decided to eliminate the rev limiter 
  from the equation. &nbsp;The limiter proved to be the problem as without it, 
  the engine would pull strongly up the range to the desired limit. 
  &nbsp;Reattachment of the limiter brought back the problem. &nbsp;We further 
  experimented with increasing the adjustment of the limiter until it only 
began 
  to affect the engine at approximately 6400 rpm allowing for a cushion on the 
  normal 6000 working limit.<BR><BR>My question is this, how exactly does the 
  unit work to limit revs? &nbsp;Is it an extremely soft cut which is designed 
  to allow an additional amount of revs after the initial onset? &nbsp;The main 
  use I have for a limiter is to prevent zinging the engine in case of a missed 
  shift. &nbsp;And, I don't wish to come up against the limiter on each shift. 
  &nbsp;Am I putting your unit to its proper application?<BR><BR>Roger 
  Beasley<BR>Cape Coral, Fl<BR>1962 TR4 Racecar</P>
  
<P><BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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