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RE: Roll Bars and suspension stiffening??

To: "'TRBILBO@aol.com'" <TRBILBO@aol.com>
Subject: RE: Roll Bars and suspension stiffening??
From: Jack Wheeler <jwheeler@seidata.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 07:04:25 -0500
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Bill, I don't have a lot of experience with Vintage racing, but I did build 
a   TR-3B for Vintage racing a number of years ago, which I eventually sold 
to Phil Bradbury.  The main roll bar hoop went through the flooe and welded 
directly to plates which I had welded on top of the frame (plates were used 
to 'spread the load').  The rear bars went down through the trunk and again 
welded directly to the reinforcing plates welded to the top of the frame. 
 A forward brace came fron the top center of the main hoop to the floor on 
the passenger's side, and again welded directly to the frame, as above.

I ran the car in VSCDA, and I know Phil has raced it in SVRA (I co-drove 
the car at Mid-Ohio with him in 1997) and HSR.  So I can conclude that this 
design was acceptable to these groups (at least as recently as 1997).

-----Original Message-----
From:   TRBILBO@aol.com [SMTP:TRBILBO@aol.com]
Sent:   Thursday, March 23, 2000 9:40 PM
To:     jwheeler@seidata.com; marshall@nefcom.net
Cc:     fot@autox.team.net
Subject:        New: Roll Bars and suspension stiffening??

Vintage "roll cages"....

I have a question...
I'm not aware of a western Vintage group that allows "cages". As a matter 
of
fact the VARA (Southern California Group) rule book (like other vintage 
books
I've read so far for western groups) specifically prohibit adding "cages" 
ala
SCCA and some even prohibit under dash hoops which add cowl rigidity
(although this is rarely enforced from what I have seen). Most importantly
some (HMSA for instance) do inspect and list a prohibition for reinforcing
suspension points (ala running the side tubes out to the shock towers),
although I know a number  who just "cheat" and do it anyways and seem to 
get
away with it. Or if the car has a true Vintage SCCA history they sometime
grandfather these reinforcements but prohibit the addition of these by the
rule book for 'new' vintage cars which of course is a bit of  a double
standard but based in part on 'grandfathering' a true 'vintage' 
configuration
car.

I was once given this logic re: safety belts and bars....make sure your 
belts
and seat are attached to body OR frame......but not seat to body if belts 
are
attached to roll bar if welded to frame or bolted to frame. If body and 
frame
separate you could be in one giant squeeze play with the belts or flopping
around depending on how unlucky you are. Made sense to me  after I saw one
nasty TR3 accident at Laguna Seca years ago that shifted the front half of
the body(including the floor pan to the seat) on the frame almost two 
inches
to the right.

Of course there are hybrid solutions....weld your roll bars thru the body
panels to the frame thereby 'capturing the body to the frame' .

So in a round about way my question for the FOT'rs is....what do the 
various
Central and Eastern Vintage org rule books say re: reinforcing suspension
points with "cage" or ancillary "intrusion bars" and is it actually
enforced?? And do any of them have anything to say re: body to frame
attachment?? And do they care if belts and seat are mounted
separately??.....and what is your opinion.

This should be good for several days worth but feel free to send direct if
you have something to say you don't want to bomb the list with.


Thanks in advance to anyone for input

Bill Burroughs, #195 TR4A-IRS
E Ticket Triumphs
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