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Well the view from my side of the tracks is a bit different, yet agrees with
most of you.
I have a 2006 Chevy truck. It is an E85 Flex Fuel vehicle designed to run on
85% ethanol. The simple facts as I have discovered them:
2008/9/14 Tim Murphy <timmurph@fastbytes.com>
> As I recall from another article, the ethanol is mixed at the
> distributors, more or less at the end of the pipeline. I think it had
> something to do with the ethanol not being good in the pipeline. Plus, I
> think most of the ethanol plants are near the corn (upper midwest and great
> plains states) and it wouldn't seem to make sense to ship it to the refiners
> and then back north and east. It has been a pretty large expense for the
> distributors to store and mix the ethanol as I understand.
>
> Tim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Bill Babcock <Billb@bnj.com>
> *To:* Tim Murphy <timmurph@fastbytes.com>
> *Cc:* britbits@netzero.com ; fot@autox.team.net
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 14, 2008 11:24 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison
>
> And there's an ethanol shortage, that won't go away for a long time.
> On Sep 14, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Murphy wrote:
>
> As of September 1, 2008 all gasoline must have 10% ethanol by Federal
> mandate. So I was told by a Mobil distributor. As always, a really well
> thought out Federal mandate. At the same time they raise the CAFE
> standards
> they lower the MPG by mandating ethanol. There was also a bill in Congress
>
> to increase the mandated percentage of ethanol. Guess which lobbying group
>
> was pushing that bill?
>
> Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim" <britbits@netzero.com>
> To: <fot@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison
>
>
> When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club
>
> president
>
> did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with the MBTE
>
> mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst equipped
>
> cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions were
>
> actually worse for the environment.
>
>
> Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted on the
>
> American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Jim
>
> Dallas
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net
>[mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net<fot-bounces@autox.team.net>]
> On
>
> Behalf Of Randall
>
> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM
>
> To: fot@autox.team.net
>
> Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison
>
>
>
> Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!).
>
>
> Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, it does
>
> absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the mixture
>
> richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel.
>
>
> For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, which
>
> does reduce tailpipe emissions.
>
>
> But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures that
>
> were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only takes one
>
> of
>
> them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more
>
> pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer
>
> cars.
>
> Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but you'd be
>
> surprised at the number of them still running around here. And remember,
>
> these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce
>
> emissions at all.
>
>
> And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the fuel,
>
> so
>
> it does no good at all.
>
>
> Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>
> Fot mailing list
>
> Fot@autox.team.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. Click
>
> Here.
>
>
>
>http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>
> Fot mailing list
>
> Fot@autox.team.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot@autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
> Bill Babcock
> Babcock & Jenkins
> Billb@bnj.com
> 503.936.7660
> www.bnj.com
>
> Editor
> Ke Nalu e-Magazine
> *Paddlesurfing's Web Journal*
> *
> *
> Bill@kenalu.com
> www.kenalu.com
> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot@autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
>
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<div dir="ltr"><br>Well the view from my side of the tracks is a bit different,
yet agrees with most of you.<br><br>I have a 2006 Chevy truck. It is an E85
Flex Fuel vehicle designed to run on 85% ethanol. The simple facts as I have
discovered them:<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2008/9/14 Tim Murphy <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:timmurph@fastbytes.com";>timmurph@fastbytes.com</a>></span><br><blockquote
class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin:
0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">As I recall from another article, the ethanol
is
mixed at the distributors, more or less at the end of the pipeline. I
think it had something to do with the ethanol not being good in the
pipeline. Plus, I think most of the ethanol plants are near the corn
(upper midwest and great plains states) and it wouldn't seem to make sense
to
ship it to the refiners and then back north and east. It has been a
pretty
large expense for the distributors to store and mix the ethanol as I
understand.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div><font color="#888888">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Tim</font></div></font><div><div></div><div
class="Wj3C7c">
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px;
padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust:
none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 0%;
-moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial;
-moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style:
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt;
line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
<b>From:</b>
<a title="Billb@bnj.com" href="mailto:Billb@bnj.com"; target="_blank">Bill
Babcock</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust:
none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b> <a title="timmurph@fastbytes.com"
href="mailto:timmurph@fastbytes.com"; target="_blank">Tim Murphy</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust:
none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="britbits@netzero.com"
href="mailto:britbits@netzero.com"; target="_blank">britbits@netzero.com</a> ;
<a title="fot@autox.team.net" href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net";
target="_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust:
none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, September 14, 2008 11:24
AM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust:
none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] gasoline
comparison</div>
<div><br></div>And there's an ethanol shortage, that won't go away
for a long
time. <br>
<div>
<div>On Sep 14, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Murphy wrote:</div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>As of September 1, 2008 all gasoline must have 10% ethanol by Federal
<br>mandate. So I was told by a Mobil distributor. As always, a
really well <br>thought out Federal mandate. At the same time they
raise the CAFE standards <br>they lower the MPG by mandating ethanol.
There was also a bill in Congress <br>to increase the mandated
percentage of ethanol. Guess which lobbying group <br>was pushing
that
bill?<br><br>Tim<br>----- Original Message ----- <br>From: "Jim"
<<a href="mailto:britbits@netzero.com";
target="_blank">britbits@netzero.com</a>><br>To:
<<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net";
target="_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br>Sent:
Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:08 PM<br>Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline
comparison<br><br><br>
<blockquote type="cite">When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the
local Triumph club <br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">president<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">did a bit of investigation.. according to what
he'd come up with the MBTE<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for
non-catalyst equipped<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely
burned emissions were<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">actually worse for the environment.<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Just another example of poorly researched
"science" being foisted on the<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">American public. Don't get me started on
the
R-12 vs R-134 bs.<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Cheers,<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Jim<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Dallas<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">-----Original Message-----<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">From: <a href="mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net";
target="_blank">fot-bounces@autox.team.net</a> [<a
href="mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net";
target="_blank">mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net</a>]
On<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Behalf Of Randall<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02
PM<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">To: <a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net";
target="_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline
comparison<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to
do also!).<br></blockquote></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Don't kid yourself. For anything made in
the
last 20 years or so, it does<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer
just tweaks the mixture<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">richer to compensate for the "oxygenated"
fuel.<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make
them run leaner, which<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">does reduce tailpipe emissions.<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between
with fixed mixtures that<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline.
And it only takes one <br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">of<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">them pushed into lean misfire under cruise
conditions, to emit more<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in
hundreds of pre-computer <br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">cars.<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves
and so on, but you'd be<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">surprised at the number of them still running
around here. And remember,<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is
supposed to reduce<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">emissions at all.<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the
mixture to suit the fuel, <br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">so<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">it does no good at all.<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of
California)<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote
type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html";
target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Fot mailing list<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Fot@autox.team.net";
target="_blank">Fot@autox.team.net</a><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><a
href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot";
target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot</a><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote
type="cite">____________________________________________________________<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with
Cable Internet. Click <br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Here.<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><a
href="http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/";
target="_blank">http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/</a><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html";
target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Fot mailing list<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Fot@autox.team.net";
target="_blank">Fot@autox.team.net</a><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><a
href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot";
target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot</a><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote
type="cite"><br></blockquote><br>_______________________________________________<br><a
href="http://www.team.net/donate.html";
target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br><br>Fot
mailing
list<br><a href="mailto:Fot@autox.team.net";
target="_blank">Fot@autox.team.net</a><br><a
href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot";
target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot</a><br><br></div></blockquote>
</div><br>
<div><span style="word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-style:
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 14px;
line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;
text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate;">
<div style=""><span style="word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Helvetica;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 14px;
line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;
text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate;">
<div style=""><span style="word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Helvetica;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 14px;
line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;
text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate;">
<div style="">
<div><span style="font-size: 16px; color: rgb(118, 15, 79);">Bill
Babcock</span></div>
<div>
<div style="">
<div style="">
<div>Babcock & Jenkins</div>
<div><a href="mailto:Billb@bnj.com"; target="_blank">Billb@bnj.com</a></div>
<div>503.936.7660</div>
<div><a href="http://www.bnj.com"; target="_blank">www.bnj.com</a></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<div><font color="#010000">Editor</font></div>
<div><font color="#010000">Ke Nalu
e-Magazine</font></div>
<div><font color="#010000"><font size="3"><span style="font-size:
12px;"><i>Paddlesurfing's
Web Journal</i></span></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#010000" size="3"><span style="font-size:
12px;"><i><br></i></span></font></div>
<div><a href="mailto:Bill@kenalu.com";
target="_blank">Bill@kenalu.com</a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.kenalu.com"; target="_blank">www.kenalu.com</a></div>
<div>blog: <a href="http://www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog";
target="_blank">www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog</a></div></div></div></div></div></div></span></div></span></div></span></div><br></blockquote></div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
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target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
<br>
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<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
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