--===============1645495339==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-55--716016710
--Apple-Mail-55--716016710
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=US-ASCII;
format=flowed;
delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Oops, I forgot, Pittsburg Grand Prix, Watkins Glen, and Beaverrun
(last year)
On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:37 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:
> And if you're intent on staying off the tracks I race on, that would
> be most of the west cost (PIR, Seattle Raceways, Mission,
> thunderhill, Infineon, Laguna Seca, Willow Springs) plus last year
> VIR, Brainerd, Grattan, Road America, Road Atlanta, Limerock, and
> Mosport. I expect to do Miller, and Barbur next year as well. Have
> fun with the rest.
> On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:24 PM, Jim wrote:
>
>> Define "speed".
>>
>> Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference,
>> or the normal speed of the run group?
>>
>> If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced
>> speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal
>> definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that?
>>
>> What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or
>> predicable drivers? What's safer?
>>
>> Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up
>> session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that
>> scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks?
>>
>> Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read?
>>
>> Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand?
>>
>> Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate
>> sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago.
>>
>> We're just supposed to be out there having fun.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jim
>> Dallas
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb@bnj.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM
>> To: britbits@netzero.com
>> Cc: 'FOT'
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving
>>
>> Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing
>> speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move
>> off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea.
>> The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is
>> responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was
>> talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed,
>> in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing
>> organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on
>> the line then.
>>
>> Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe
>> nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able
>> to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I
>> bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to.
>>
>>
>> On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote:
>>
>>> I understand the intent....
>>>
>>> When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the
>>> understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted
>>> to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass.
>>>
>>> Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum?
>>>
>>> One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to
>>> allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that
>>> session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule.
>>>
>>> When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini
>>> Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my
>>> expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking
>>> car should use that information in order to make a safe pass.
>>>
>>> I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each
>>> vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track.
>>> If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If
>>> it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also
>>> needs to be agreed before cars hit the track.
>>>
>>> It all comes down to communication.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Jim
>>> Dallas
>>> too many toys, not enough $$$
>>>
>>> From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-
>>> bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM
>>> To: britbits@netzero.com
>>> Cc: 'FOT'
>>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving
>>>
>>> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete
>>> before reading.
>>>
>>>
>>> I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the
>>> "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed
>>> that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was
>>> traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want
>>> to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why
>>> were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to
>>> be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at
>>> speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are
>>> driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is
>>> the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be,
>>> then you do.
>>>
>>> There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you
>>> are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this
>>> guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I
>>> always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group,
>>> generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was
>>> driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor
>>> told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I
>>> considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any
>>> day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In
>>> contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out,
>>> they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where
>>> they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait.
>>>
>>> If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe
>>> path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up
>>> behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a
>>> corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and
>>> that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say,
>>> the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible.
>>>
>>> We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with
>>> picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed
>>> you don't belong anywhere near the racing line.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote:
>>>
>>>> Steven,
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage
>>>> events... so
>>>> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC
>>>> games feel
>>>> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they
>>>> saw "Days of
>>>> Thunder" once too often ;)
>>>>
>>>> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad
>>>> idea to
>>>> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show
>>>> them the
>>>> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>> Dallas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-
>>>> bounces@autox.team.net] On
>>>> Behalf Of Steven Belfer
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM
>>>> To: FOT
>>>> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving
>>>>
>>>> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I
>>>> raced at
>>>> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding.
>>>> This meant I
>>>> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let
>>>> them cool so
>>>> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I
>>>> was in the
>>>> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys
>>>> what I needed
>>>> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine
>>>> and feeling
>>>> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about
>>>> done
>>>> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the
>>>> first "Warm-up"
>>>> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved
>>>> him to the
>>>> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty
>>>> close to the
>>>> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON
>>>> THE DIRT at
>>>> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly,
>>>> threw some
>>>> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with
>>>> a yellow
>>>> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice
>>>> his lap time
>>>> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise
>>>> and made me
>>>> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my
>>>> best to get
>>>> my job done safely and get off
>>>> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if
>>>> it's
>>>> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no
>>>> prize money."
>>>> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of
>>>> their
>>>> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag
>>>> move and
>>>> you're in big trouble.
>>>>
>>>> ~SB
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>>>
>>>> Fot mailing list
>>>> Fot@autox.team.net
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your
>>>> Future holds.
>>>>
>http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>>>
>>>> Fot mailing list
>>>> Fot@autox.team.net
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Babcock
>>> Babcock & Jenkins
>>> Billb@bnj.com
>>> 503.936.7660
>>> www.bnj.com
>>>
>>> Editor
>>> Ke Nalu e-Magazine
>>> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal
>>>
>>> Bill@kenalu.com
>>> www.kenalu.com
>>> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for
>>> diet tips and solutions.
>>
>> Bill Babcock
>> Babcock & Jenkins
>> Billb@bnj.com
>> 503.936.7660
>> www.bnj.com
>>
>> Editor
>> Ke Nalu e-Magazine
>> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal
>>
>> Bill@kenalu.com
>> www.kenalu.com
>> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel
>> online.
>
> Bill Babcock
> Babcock & Jenkins
> Billb@bnj.com
> 503.936.7660
> www.bnj.com
>
> Editor
> Ke Nalu e-Magazine
> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal
>
> Bill@kenalu.com
> www.kenalu.com
> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog
>
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot@autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb@bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com
Editor
Ke Nalu e-Magazine
Paddlesurfing's Web Journal
Bill@kenalu.com
www.kenalu.com
blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog
--Apple-Mail-55--716016710
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Oops, I forgot, Pittsburg Grand =
Prix, Watkins Glen, and Beaverrun (last year)<br><div><div>On Sep 25, =
2008, at 9:37 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">And if you're intent on staying =
off the tracks I race on, that would be most of the west cost (PIR, =
Seattle Raceways, Mission, thunderhill, Infineon, Laguna Seca, Willow =
Springs) plus last year VIR, Brainerd, Grattan, Road America, Road =
Atlanta, Limerock, and Mosport. I expect to do Miller, and Barbur next =
year as well. Have fun with the rest. <br><div><div>On Sep 25, =
2008, at 9:24 PM, Jim wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div =
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">Define "speed".</font></span></div> <div =
dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font =
face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> =
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font =
face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">Is it the speed your car is =
capable of... your personal preference, or the normal speed of the run =
group?</font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span =
class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" =
size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">If Steve was running around the track at =
some really reduced speed... yeah, he should move off line. But =
what's the legal definition? 10mph slower? 20? =
30? Who defines that?</font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">What's more important on a race =
course? A clear line? Or predicable =
drivers? What's safer?</font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">Keeping in mind that the scenario is also =
an early morning warm up session. Do you pull full rev full bore =
racing moves in that scenario? Where do you race? So I can =
avoid those tracks?</font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">Or did you read the original post at =
all? Going by too fast to read?</font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr"=
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">Or should I slow down my questions so you =
can understand?</font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span =
class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" =
size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this =
mess? Corporate sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was =
30+ year ago. </font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">We're just supposed to be out there having =
fun. </font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span =
class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" =
size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">Cheers,</font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">Jim</font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">Dallas</font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"000231504-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2"></font></span> </div><br> <div =
class=3D"OutlookMessageHeader" lang=3D"en-us" dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"> =
<hr tabindex=3D"-1"> <font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><b>From:</b> Bill =
Babcock [<a href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>mailto:Billb@bnj.com</a>] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:britbits@netzero.com";>britbits@netzero.com</a><br><b>Cc:</b=
> 'FOT'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous =
driving<br></font><br></div> <div></div>Actually, it all comes down to =
whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not =
required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact =
it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to =
your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. =
What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at =
racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in =
any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be =
on the line then. <div><br></div> <div>Bedding your brakes and =
breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. =
People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. =
I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the =
dirt because he wanted to. </div> <div><br> <div><br> <div> <div>On =
Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div =
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">I understand the =
intent....</font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span =
class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" =
size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">When I went through my drivers school in a =
vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the =
line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their =
RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass.</font></span></div> <div =
dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font =
face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> =
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font =
face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">Or is responsibility not a =
word to mention in this forum?</font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">One of the other racers shared an anecdote =
of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come =
in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the =
basic rule.</font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span =
class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" =
size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">When I was active in Vintage I was in a =
close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was =
difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling =
right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to =
make a safe pass.</font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">I guess it's something that needs to be =
discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers =
go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of =
rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a =
different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the =
track.</font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span =
class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" =
size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">It all comes down to =
communication.</font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span =
class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" =
size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">Cheers,</font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr"=
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2"></font></span> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">Jim</font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">Dallas</font></span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" =
align=3D"left"><span class=3D"484395603-26092008"><font face=3D"Arial" =
color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">too many toys, not enough =
$$$</font></span></div><br> <div class=3D"OutlookMessageHeader" =
lang=3D"en-us" dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"> <hr tabindex=3D"-1"> <font =
face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><b>From:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net";>fot-bounces@autox.team.net</a> =
[<a =
href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net";>mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.n=
et</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bill Babcock<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, =
September 25, 2008 10:51 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:britbits@netzero.com";>britbits@netzero.com</a><br><b>Cc:</b=
> 'FOT'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous =
driving<br></font><br></div> <div></div>You may not like this answer, =
so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. <div><br></div> =
<div><br></div> <div>I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, =
have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling =
at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I =
was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want =
to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, =
why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to =
be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed =
and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are <span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"TEXT-DECORATION: =
underline">driving</span> to the line, you don't need to be there. If =
the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to =
be, then you do. </div> <div><br></div> <div>There's a reason why =
they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, =
get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what =
I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and =
the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes =
three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving =
instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I =
considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on =
the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when =
you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH =
slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing =
but respect for that, lift and wait. </div> =
<div><br></div> <div>If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking =
the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are =
coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a =
corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's =
dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other =
driver was to blame, but you are responsible. </div> =
<div><br></div> <div>We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are =
car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at =
racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing =
line. </div> <div><br></div> <div><br> <div> <div>On Sep 25, =
2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">=
<blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div>Steven,<br><br>Unfortunately they =
use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so<br>some of the =
"kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games =
feel<br>they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or =
maybe they saw "Days of<br>Thunder" once too often ;)<br><br>Aside =
from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea =
to<br>install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and =
show them the<br>video. It's kind of hard to argue against a =
=
video.<br><br><br>Cheers,<br><br>Jim<br>Dallas<br><br><br>-----Original =
Message-----<br>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net";>fot-bounces@autox.team.net</a> =
[<a =
href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net";>mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.n=
et</a>] On<br>Behalf Of Steven Belfer<br>Sent: Thursday, September =
25, 2008 6:24 PM<br>To: FOT<br>Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, =
dangerous driving<br><br>Speaking of dangerous driving situations, =
two weekends ago I raced at<br>Buttonwillow in my TR3. I =
had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I<br>needed to =
heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool =
so<br>I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. =
I was in the<br>first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper =
official-type guys what I needed<br>to do and started in the back. =
I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling<br>that out as well. =
Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done<br>bedding =
the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first =
"Warm-up"<br>session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me =
and I waved him to the<br>left and moved to the right a little bit, =
while staying pretty close to the<br>line. Next thing I know =
the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at<br>full speed. He =
re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some<br>rocks =
onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a =
yellow<br>P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to =
sacrifice his lap time<br>when overtaking me. The level of =
aggression took me by surprise and made me<br>angry. It was, =
after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get<br>my =
job done safely and get off <br>the race track. I =
tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's =
<br>dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no =
prize money."<br>I would say that most of the drivers are safe and =
respectful of their<br>machines and their abilities but all it takes =
is one douchebag move and<br>you're in big =
trouble.<br><br>~SB<br><br><br>___________________________________________=
____<br>Support Team.Net <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>http://www.team.net/donate.html</=
a><br><br><a =
href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com";>http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Fo=
t mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:Fot@autox.team.net";>Fot@autox.team.net</a><br><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot";>http://autox.team.net/=
mailman/listinfo/fot</a><br><br><br>______________________________________=
______________________<br>Click here to find answers for Love, =
Problems, and what your Future holds.<br><a =
href=3D"http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQ=
tj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/">http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/=
TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/</a><br>=
_______________________________________________<br>Support Team.Net =
=
http://www.team.net/donate.html<br><br>http://www.fot-racing.com<br><br>Fo=
t mailing =
list<br>Fot@autox.team.net<br>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot<b=
r><br></div></blockquote></div><br> <div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 14px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; =
LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: =
2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0"> <div style=3D"WORD-WRAP: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"WORD-SPACING:=
0px; FONT: 14px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); =
TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; =
BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"> <div style=3D"WORD-WRAP: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"WORD-SPACING:=
0px; FONT: 14px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); =
TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; =
BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"> <div style=3D"WORD-WRAP: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"> <div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: rgb(118,15,79)">Bill =
Babcock</span></div> <div> <div style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"> <div =
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"> <div>Babcock & =
Jenkins</div> <div><a =
href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Billb@bnj.com</a></div> =
<div>503.936.7660</div> <div><a =
href=3D"http://www.bnj.com";>www.bnj.com</a></div> <div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> <div> <div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#010000">Editor</font></div> =
<div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#010000">Ke Nalu =
e-Magazine</font></div> <div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#010000"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px"><i>Paddlesurfing's =
Web Journal</i></span></font></font></div> <div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#010000" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px"><i><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></i></span></font></div> <div><a =
href=3D"mailto:Bill@kenalu.com";>Bill@kenalu.com</a></div> <div><a =
href=3D"http://www.kenalu.com";>www.kenalu.com</a></div> <div>blog: <a =
href=3D"http://www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog";>www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog</a><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></span></div></span></div></span></div>=
<br></div></div><font face=3D"Times-New-Roman" =
size=3D"2"><br><br>_______________________________________________________=
_____ <br><a =
href=3D"http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2242/fc/Ioyw6i4unVuRKqFpIYx=
XJ3WkQdqqfRbKCHuwurhb1SIKdsNjsyYwIW/" target=3D"_blank">Reach your goals =
of being healthier and happier. Click here for diet tips and =
solutions.</a></font><a =
href=3D"http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2242/fc/Ioyw6i4unVuRKqFpIYx=
XJ3WkQdqqfRbKCHuwurhb1SIKdsNjsyYwIW/" =
target=3D"_blank"></a><br></blockquote></div><br> <div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 14px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; =
LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: =
2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0"> <div style=3D"WORD-WRAP: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"WORD-SPACING:=
0px; FONT: 14px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); =
TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; =
BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"> <div style=3D"WORD-WRAP: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"WORD-SPACING:=
0px; FONT: 14px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); =
TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; =
BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"> <div style=3D"WORD-WRAP: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"> <div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: rgb(118,15,79)">Bill =
Babcock</span></div> <div> <div style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"> <div =
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"> <div>Babcock & Jenkins</div> =
<div><a href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Billb@bnj.com</a></div> =
<div>503.936.7660</div> <div><a =
href=3D"http://www.bnj.com";>www.bnj.com</a></div> <div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> <div> <div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#010000">Editor</font></div> =
<div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#010000">Ke Nalu =
e-Magazine</font></div> <div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#010000"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px"><i>Paddlesurfing's =
Web Journal</i></span></font></font></div> <div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#010000" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px"><i><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></i></span></font></div> <div><a =
href=3D"mailto:Bill@kenalu.com";>Bill@kenalu.com</a></div> <div><a =
href=3D"http://www.kenalu.com";>www.kenalu.com</a></div> <div>blog: <a =
href=3D"http://www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog";>www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog</a><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></span></div></span></div></span></div>=
<br></div></div></div> <font face=3D"Times-New-Roman" =
size=3D"2"><br><br>_______________________________________________________=
_____ <br><a =
href=3D"http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2242/fc/Ioyw6i4uHAejofFLNRE=
YiFHdxrZrjzd0V3WCWZX4SRgUPRlO97HEc2/" target=3D"_blank">Hotel pics, info =
and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online.</a></font><a =
href=3D"http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2242/fc/Ioyw6i4uHAejofFLNRE=
YiFHdxrZrjzd0V3WCWZX4SRgUPRlO97HEc2/" =
target=3D"_blank"></a><br></blockquote></div><br><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true"> <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"color:=
rgb(118, 15, 79); font-size: 16px; ">Bill Babcock</span></div><div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div>Babcock & Jenkins</div><div><a =
href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Billb@bnj.com</a></div><div>503.936.7660</di=
v><div><a href=3D"http://www.bnj.com";>www.bnj.com</a></div><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#010000">Editor</font></div><div><font=
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#010000">Ke Nalu =
e-Magazine</font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#010000"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
"><i>Paddlesurfing's Web =
Journal</i></span></font></font></div><div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#010000" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><i><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></i></span></font></div><div><a =
href=3D"mailto:Bill@kenalu.com";>Bill@kenalu.com</a></div><div><a =
href=3D"http://www.kenalu.com";>www.kenalu.com</a></div><div>blog: <a =
href=3D"http://www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog";>www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog</a><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></span></div></span></div></span> =
</div><br></div>_______________________________________________<br>Support=
Team.Net <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>http://www.team.net/donate.html</=
a><br><br><a =
href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com";>http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Fo=
t mailing =
list<br>Fot@autox.team.net<br>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot<b=
r><br></blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited=3D"true"> <span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"color:=
rgb(118, 15, 79); font-size: 16px; ">Bill Babcock</span></div><div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div>Babcock & Jenkins</div><div><a =
href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Billb@bnj.com</a></div><div>503.936.7660</di=
v><div><a href=3D"http://www.bnj.com";>www.bnj.com</a></div><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#010000">Editor</font></div><div><font=
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#010000">Ke Nalu =
e-Magazine</font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#010000"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
"><i>Paddlesurfing's Web =
Journal</i></span></font></font></div><div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#010000" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><i><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></i></span></font></div><div><a =
href=3D"mailto:Bill@kenalu.com";>Bill@kenalu.com</a></div><div><a =
href=3D"http://www.kenalu.com";>www.kenalu.com</a></div><div>blog: <a =
href=3D"http://www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog";>www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog</a><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></span></div></span></div></span> =
</div><br></body></html>=
--Apple-Mail-55--716016710--
--===============1645495339==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
http://www.fot-racing.com
Fot mailing list
Fot@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
--===============1645495339==--
|