--===============6188906649492423267==
boundary="----=_Part_244880_935762842.1539967917634"
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These are some words of wisdom...Glenps- I've found different size holes i=
n the float valves, also grose jets are particularly restrictive.
The SU's are so simple minded and easy to work with I'd want to very certai=
n that the was a BIG benifit before changing to jetted carbs that need a to=
n of parts of you are going to make use of the capacity of the units.
=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Kas Kastner <kaskastner@gmail.com>
To: fubog1 <fubog1@aol.com>
Cc: Van Mulders Marcel <van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be>; FOT <fot@autox.team=
.net>
Sent: Fri, Oct 19, 2018 12:32 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni
Lots of times at the higher revs the float bowls of the S.U.'s just run out=
of gas and they need an enlargment of the needle and seat.Many times the s=
tock needle and seat j ust does not have enough capacity to flow the fuel n=
eeded for the much richer needles used and the revvs. The SU's are so simpl=
e minded and easy to work with I'd want to very certain that the was a BIG =
benifit before changing to jetted carbs that need a ton of parts of you are=
going to make use of the capacity of the units.
=C2=A0If you do not tune for the day and the weather at that time what is t=
he point in having all that adustment. With the SU a couple flats adjustmen=
t up or down and you are done the hour. Bigger machinery does not mean bigg=
er power or even more useful power.
BUT, if you are going for the expensive route, get the msot you can get.=C2=
=A0 DCOE 45's are the ticket. Start with a small venturi and work up from t=
here. Yes, you neeed to buy=C2=A0 alterate venturies otherwise you have jus=
t wasted your money.These same carbs were used on the Sebring and Le Mans S=
pitfire coupes 1147 cc engines=C2=A0 and proved 3% more power by tuning. To=
get the benifit you need to work at it.
Never be beaten by equipment.
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:01 AM fubog1 via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
Yes HS4 carbs.Glen
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: van.mulders.marcel <van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be>
To: fubog1 <fubog1@aol.com>
Cc: fot <fot@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 5:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni
Glen,With 1 1/2s carburettors, I suppose you mean HS4? The SU logic is a li=
ttle weird. 1" + 1/2" =3D 6/8" so you would think it are HS6s, but when tal=
king about HS carburettors, 1 + 1/2 =3D 1 + 4/8 and they took the 4 to name=
these carbs HS4...Marcel
Van: "fubog1" <fubog1@aol.com>
Aan: "van mulders marcel" <van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be>, "Mike Harmuth" <=
ofracer@gmail.com>
Cc: "fot" <fot@autox.team.net>
Verzonden: Donderdag 18 oktober 2018 22:39:39
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni
Well I won't speculate on the cause, but I doubt that it's the SUs.
My small crank 1300 w/1 1/2s on a eurospec manifold w/Stahls header, "big" =
valve head, would buzz easily to 9k, still making power, if I let it.Normal=
shift point 7800-8000.FWIW...
Glen
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>
To: Mike Harmuth <ofracer@gmail.com>
Cc: fot <fot@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 2:12 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni
-"...hitting a wall at that point..." : is it possible this is rather point=
ing to the camshaft than to the SU's? If it are the carburettors, maybe the=
power would decrease more gradually above 6500 rpm.-In general one choke p=
er cylinder is better, and 2 Webers 40 DCOE isn't overkill I think- what ab=
out trying HS6 SU's on your actual manifold?At what maximum rpm is your eng=
ine still reliable?Marcel
Van: "fot" <fot@autox.team.net>
Aan: "fot" <fot@autox.team.net>
Verzonden: Woensdag 17 oktober 2018 15:49:45
Onderwerp: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni
I'm looking into switching out my twin HS4s on the 1296 race engine to eith=
er Weber or Mukinis. I know this has been done for years and I'd like to ge=
t close the best set up out of the gate.=20
I don't think the SUs are up to the task of moving enough air with the new =
ported head and Stahl header. I've worked on the SUs and gotten them to fin=
ally deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at 6500 RPM under load but I seem to hit a =
wall (figuratively) at that point. I suspect that the openings just aren't =
big enough to deliver the mass of air required. (spreadsheet or other flow =
calculator link appreciated)
Biggest gate I suspect is the intake valve, 1 3/8" head (~35mm) HS4 is ~38m=
m at best.
Recommendations? I've seen all these setups at the track, each with pluses,=
minuses and overkill cause it looks cool.=20
One weber DCOE 40 or 2? what jets, tubes etc for a starting point? Best man=
ifold?=20
2 or 4 Mikuni 40? jet size?
thanksmike
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
arcel@telenet.be
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
m
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
ail.com
------=_Part_244880_935762842.1539967917634
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<font color=3D'black' size=3D'2' face=3D'Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'>
<div> <font size=3D"2">These are some words of wisdom...</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2">Glen</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2">ps- I've found different size holes in the float valv=
es, also grose jets are particularly restrictive.</font><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><bloc=
kquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 3px;">The SU's a=
re so simple minded and easy to work with I'd want to very certain that the=
was a BIG benifit before changing to jetted carbs that need a ton of parts=
of you are going to make use of the capacity of the units.
<div></div>
</blockquote></div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Kas Kastner <kaskastner@gmail.com><br>
To: fubog1 <fubog1@aol.com><br>
Cc: Van Mulders Marcel <van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be>; FOT <fot@a=
utox.team.net><br>
Sent: Fri, Oct 19, 2018 12:32 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br>
<br>
<div id=3D"yiv6253483699">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Lots of times at the higher revs the float bowls of the S.=
U.'s just run out of gas and they need an enlargment of the needle and seat=
.Many times the stock needle and seat j ust does not have enough capacity t=
o flow the fuel needed for the much richer needles used and the revvs. The =
SU's are so simple minded and easy to work with I'd want to very certain th=
at the was a BIG benifit before changing to jetted carbs that need a ton of=
parts of you are going to make use of the capacity of the units.
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<div> If you do not tune for the day and the weather at that time what=
is the point in having all that adustment. With the SU a couple flats adju=
stment up or down and you are done the hour. Bigger machinery does not mean=
bigger power or even more useful power.
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<div>BUT, if you are going for the expensive route, get the msot you can ge=
t. DCOE 45's are the ticket. Start with a small venturi and work up f=
rom there. Yes, you neeed to buy alterate venturies otherwise you hav=
e just wasted your money.These same carbs were used on the Sebring and Le M=
ans Spitfire coupes 1147 cc engines and proved 3% more power by tunin=
g. To get the benifit you need to work at it.<br clear=3D"all">
<div>
<div class=3D"yiv6253483699gmail_signature" dir=3D"ltr">
<div><strong><font color=3D"#000099">Never be beaten by equipment.</font></=
strong></div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"yiv6253483699gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"yiv6253483699yqt4822778474" id=3D"yiv6253483699yqtfd10159">
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:01 AM fubog1 via Fot <<a rel=
=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.ne=
t" target=3D"_blank" removedlink__d3850202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b__hre=
f=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br clear=
=3D"none"></div>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"yiv6253483699gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;b=
order-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class=3D"yiv6253483699yqt4822778474" id=3D"yiv6253483699yqtfd33561"><f=
ont size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=3D"black">
</font>
<div> <font size=3D"2">Yes HS4 carbs.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2">Glen</font><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black;">---=
--Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: van.mulders.marcel <<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be"; target=3D"_blank" removedl=
ink__d3850202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:van.mulders.marce=
l@telenet.be">van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be</a>><br clear=3D"none">
To: fubog1 <<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mai=
lto:fubog1@aol.com" target=3D"_blank" removedlink__d3850202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d-=
72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:fubog1@aol.com";>fubog1@aol.com</a>><br clea=
r=3D"none">
Cc: fot <<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto=
:fot@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" removedlink__d3850202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d=
-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>>=
;<br clear=3D"none">
Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 5:48 pm<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<div id=3D"yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423">
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:1=
0pt;color:#000000;">
<div>Glen,</div>
<div>With 1 1/2s carburettors, I suppose you mean HS4? The SU logic is a li=
ttle weird. 1" + 1/2" =3D 6/8" so you would think it are HS6s, but when tal=
king about HS carburettors, 1 + 1/2 =3D 1 + 4/8 and they took the 4 to name=
these carbs HS4...</div>
<div>Marcel</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<hr id=3D"yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423zwchr">
<div class=3D"yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt0596148954=
" id=3D"yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt61649">
<div><b>Van: </b>"fubog1" <<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect"=
ymailto=3D"mailto:fubog1@aol.com"; target=3D"_blank" removedlink__d3850202-=
27d3-4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:fubog1@aol.com";>fubog1@aol.com<=
/a>><br clear=3D"none"><b>Aan: </b>"van mulders marcel" <<a rel=3D"no=
opener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:van.mulders.marcel@tele=
net.be" target=3D"_blank" removedlink__d3850202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b=
__href=3D"mailto:van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be";>van.mulders.marcel@telenet.=
be</a>>, "Mike Harmuth" <<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect=
" ymailto=3D"mailto:ofracer@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank" removedlink__d3850=
202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:ofracer@gmail.com";>ofracer@=
gmail.com</a>><br clear=3D"none"><b>Cc: </b>"fot" <<a rel=3D"noopener=
noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D=
"_blank" removedlink__d3850202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:=
fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br clear=3D"none"><b>Verzond=
en: </b>Donderdag 18 oktober 2018 22:39:39<br clear=3D"none"><b>Onderwerp: =
</b>Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div><span style=3D"color:black;font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:small;">
</span>
<div> <span style=3D"font-size:small;">Well I won't speculate on the cause,=
but I doubt that it's the SUs.<br clear=3D"none">
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:small;">My small crank 1300 w/1 1/2s on a eur=
ospec manifold w/Stahls header, "big" valve head, would buzz easily to 9k, =
still making power, if I let it.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:small;">Normal shift point 7800-8000.</span><=
/div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:small;">FWIW...<br clear=3D"none">
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:small;">Glen</span><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black;">---=
--Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot <<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shap=
e=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" removedl=
ink__d3850202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.ne=
t">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br clear=3D"none">
To: Mike Harmuth <<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=
=3D"mailto:ofracer@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank" removedlink__d3850202-27d3-=
4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:ofracer@gmail.com";>ofracer@gmail.com=
</a>><br clear=3D"none">
Cc: fot <<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto=
:fot@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" removedlink__d3850202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d=
-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>>=
;<br clear=3D"none">
Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 2:12 pm<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<div id=3D"yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423">
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:1=
0pt;color:#000000;">
<div>-"...hitting a wall at that point..." : is it possible this is rather =
pointing to the camshaft than to the SU's? If it are the carburettors, mayb=
e the power would decrease more gradually above 6500 rpm.</div>
<div>-In general one choke per cylinder is better, and 2 Webers 40 DCOE isn=
't overkill I think</div>
<div>- what about trying HS6 SU's on your actual manifold?</div>
<div>At what maximum rpm is your engine still reliable?</div>
<div>Marcel</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<hr id=3D"yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423zwchr">
<div class=3D"yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt0105059393=
" id=3D"yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt73080">
<div><b>Van: </b>"fot" <<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ym=
ailto=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" removedlink__d3850202=
-27d3-4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.=
team.net</a>><br clear=3D"none"><b>Aan: </b>"fot" <<a rel=3D"noopener=
noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D=
"_blank" removedlink__d3850202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:=
fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br clear=3D"none"><b>Verzond=
en: </b>Woensdag 17 oktober 2018 15:49:45<br clear=3D"none"><b>Onderwerp: <=
/b>[Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>I'm looking into switching out my twin HS4s on the 1296 race engine to=
either Weber or Mukinis. I know this has been done for years and I'd like =
to get close the best set up out of the gate. <br clear=3D"none"></div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>I don't think the SUs are up to the task of moving enough air with the=
new ported head and Stahl header. I've worked on the SUs and gotten them t=
o finally deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at 6500 RPM under load but I seem to h=
it a wall (figuratively) at that point. I suspect that the openings just ar=
en't big enough to deliver the mass of air required. (spreadsheet or other =
flow calculator link appreciated)<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<div>Biggest gate I suspect is the intake valve, 1 3/8" head (~35mm) HS4 is=
~38mm at best.<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>Recommendations? I've seen all these setups at the track, each with pl=
uses, minuses and overkill cause it looks cool. <br clear=3D"none"></div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>One weber DCOE 40 or 2? what jets, tubes etc for a starting point? Bes=
t manifold? <br clear=3D"none"></div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>2 or 4 Mikuni 40? jet size?</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>thanks</div>
<div>mike<br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
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