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Nice write up and documentation , Thanks Curt
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, October 18, 2018, 10:42 PM, Curtis Arndt <cnaarndt@gmail.com> =
wrote:
Gary,
With all due respect, sorry but you are mistaken on a number of points.=C2=
=A0
Michael Salter... Please make this my first revision for the next Concours =
Guidelines update.=C2=A0
First off, the badges were never Cloisonne, they are red enamel.=C2=A0 Yes,=
the Concours Guidelines state that they are Cloisonne, the Guidelines are =
WRONG.=C2=A0 I am officially submitting an update for the next Concours Gui=
delines revision.
Copied from the Concours Guidelines...
"All cars up through the Mark I 3000s had flat Austin-Healey "wings" mounte=
d on the front between the grille and bonnet opening, with red cloisonn=C3=
=A9 lettering inset in chrome."=C2=A0=C2=A0
Change to read=C2=A0"red enamel lettering"
This is where the confusion first arises!
Secondly, all Austin Healey badges were red enamel from the very first BN1 =
in 1953 through the BJ8 at chassis no. 39975. After that they were indeed p=
ainted red.=C2=A0 Also copied from the Concours Guidelines...
"BJ8s produced starting around C. 39,975 (approximate date =E2=80=93 Decemb=
er 1966) had a similar badge that was not cloisonn=C3=A9 but was painted re=
d instead of the cloisonn=C3=A9.=C2=A0These later badges have a smooth back=
ground instead of the pebbled background of=C2=A0the enameled badges."=C2=
=A0
Change to read=C2=A0"was not enamel but was painted red instead of the enam=
el."
Karla Maxwell, a trained jeweler with 45+ years experience who owns Maxwell=
Enamels will tell you, as she told me 25 years ago that automotive badges =
are enamel and NOT Cloisonne.=C2=A0 Karla is the premier automotive emblem =
restorer in the US, is in high demand for Pebble Beach participants, is a n=
eighbor and personal friend of 25+ years. Karla has restored a number of ba=
dges personally for me, and I have done some Bakelite restoration work for =
Karla for Pebble Beach cars that she was working on.=C2=A0 Oh, and Karla's =
business is Maxwell Enamels NOT Maxwell Cloisonne.=C2=A0 In the UK the best=
known badge restorer is PD Enamels, NOT PD Cloisonne.
I hope that this clears things up once and for all.
This is from Karla's FAQ section of her website...=C2=A0http://www.maxwelle=
namels.com/FAQs.html
FAQ... How was my emblem created?=C2=A0
These enameled emblems are often, incorrectly, referred to as=C2=A0cloisonn=
=C3=A9. Cloisonn=C3=A9 is an enamel process in which separate bands of meta=
l are bent then applied to a base. These labor intensive bands encase the e=
namel and create the design. I have yet to see an automobile emblem done wi=
th cloisonn=C3=A9. The process that is used is called=C2=A0champlev=C3=A9=
=C2=A0(pronounced shomp=C2=B4-leh-vay).
The champlev=C3=A9 technique involves=C2=A0applying enamel into depressions=
in the base metal. These depressions may be etched, engraved or, in the ca=
se of automobile emblems, die stamped. The stamping process can also includ=
e the beautiful design work that shows under transparent enamels.=C2=A0
Historically the word enamel meant glass but today it seems to refer to any=
shiny color. The correct terminology is=C2=A0vitreous=C2=A0[glass] enamel.=
It is a true glass that melts and fuses around 1400 degrees F.=C2=A0 Ename=
l can be obtained as opaque, translucent or transparent. The colors are cre=
ated by the addition of metallic oxides to the glass.
=C2=A0
On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 8:31 PM Gary R. Brierton <gbrierton@hotmail.com> wr=
ote:
OK...let's try and clear this up.=C2=A0 As I understand it, the "flat wings=
with the Austin-Healey script" commonly seen on BN1, BN2 and (I don't know=
when it stopped), had red paint of unknown shade in the etched out letteri=
ng.=C2=A0 Along came the larger badges with MKII or whatever, incloisonne. =
THEN, to really screw us up, those badges returned to red paint of unknown =
shade, seemingly during BJ8 production.=C2=A0 As was true with almost every=
thing involving our cars, the exact change VIN number for all of this is la=
rgely indeterminate, at least as far as trim pieces are concerned...oh, and=
some major body parts, like wings with one=C2=A0 or two signaling lights, =
swag lines, whatever.=C2=A0 Reliable reports (from D.M.H.!) state that the =
guiding principle in assembling our cars was "use up what was on hand".I cl=
aim no expertise beyond owning Austin-Healeys and associating with their ow=
ners for over 50 years (so, mainly the 6 cylinder cars).Take it away, Curt,=
Randy, Steve, et. al.=F0=9F=98=81
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archiv=
e
Healeys@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
gmail.com
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<html xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"; xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microso=
ft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><head><!--[=
if gte mso 9]><xml><o:OfficeDocumentSettings><o:AllowPNG/><o:PixelsPerInch>=
96</o:PixelsPerInch></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]--></head><bo=
dy>
Nice write up and documentation , Thanks Curt<br><br><br><a href=3D"https:/=
/overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=3DiOS">Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone</a><b=
r><br><p class=3D"yahoo-quoted-begin" style=3D"font-size: 15px; color: #715=
FFA; padding-top: 15px; margin-top: 0">On Thursday, October 18, 2018, 10:42=
PM, Curtis Arndt <cnaarndt@gmail.com> wrote:</p><blockquote class=3D=
"iosymail"><div id=3D"yiv4487996018"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Gary=
,<div><br></div><div>With all due respect, sorry but you are mistaken on a =
number of points. </div><div><br></div><div><b>Michael Salter... Pleas=
e make this my first revision for the next Concours Guidelines update. =
;</b></div><div><br></div><div>First off, the badges were never Cloisonne, =
they are red enamel. Yes, the Concours Guidelines state that they are=
Cloisonne, the Guidelines are WRONG. I am officially submitting an u=
pdate for the next Concours Guidelines revision.</div><div><br></div><div><=
span class=3D"yiv4487996018gmail-fontstyle0" style=3D"font-family:BookmanOl=
dStyle;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial, =
Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(34,34,34);">Copied from the=
Concours Guidelines...</span></span></div><div><span class=3D"yiv448799601=
8gmail-fontstyle0" style=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0);"><br></span></div><div><i><span class=3D"yiv4487996018gmail-f=
ontstyle0" style=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,=
0,0);">"All cars up through the Mark I 3000s had flat Austin-Healey "wings"=
mounted on the front between the grille and bonnet opening, with <u>red cl=
oisonn=C3=A9 lettering</u> inset in chrome."</span> </i></div><d=
iv><br></div><div>Change to read<i> <b>"</b></i><b><i><span class=3D"y=
iv4487996018gmail-fontstyle0" style=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-siz=
e:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);">red enamel lettering</span></i><i>"</i></b><br st=
yle=3D"line-height:normal;"></div><div><br></div><div>This is where the con=
fusion first arises!</div><div><br></div><div>Secondly, all Austin Healey b=
adges were red enamel from the very first BN1 in 1953 through the BJ8 at ch=
assis no. 39975. After that they were indeed painted red. Also copied=
from the Concours Guidelines...</div><div><br></div><div><i><span class=3D=
"yiv4487996018gmail-fontstyle0" style=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-s=
ize:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);">"BJ8s produced starting around C. 39,975 (appro=
ximate date =E2=80=93 December 1966) had a similar badge that <u>was not cl=
oisonn=C3=A9 but was painted red instead of the cloisonn=C3=A9</u>.</span>&=
nbsp;<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:=
10pt;">These later badges have a smooth background instead of the pebbled b=
ackground of </span><span class=3D"yiv4487996018gmail-fontstyle0" styl=
e=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);">the enam=
eled badges." </span></i></div><div><br></div><div>Change to read<i>&n=
bsp;<b>"</b></i><i><span class=3D"yiv4487996018gmail-fontstyle0" style=3D"f=
ont-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>was not ena=
mel but was painted red instead of the enamel."</b></span></i></div><div><b=
r></div><div>Karla Maxwell, a trained jeweler with 45+ years experience who=
owns Maxwell Enamels will tell you, as she told me 25 years ago that autom=
otive badges are enamel and NOT Cloisonne. Karla is the premier autom=
otive emblem restorer in the US, is in high demand for Pebble Beach partici=
pants, is a neighbor and personal friend of 25+ years. Karla has restored a=
number of badges personally for me, and I have done some Bakelite restorat=
ion work for Karla for Pebble Beach cars that she was working on. Oh,=
and Karla's business is Maxwell Enamels NOT Maxwell Cloisonne. In th=
e UK the best known badge restorer is PD Enamels, NOT PD Cloisonne.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>I hope that this clears things up once and for all.</div>=
<div><br></div><div>This is from Karla's FAQ section of her website... =
;<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.maxwellenamels.co=
m/FAQs.html">http://www.maxwellenamels.com/FAQs.html</a></div><div><div cla=
ss=3D"yiv4487996018gmail-sf_content" style=3D"float:right;width:463px;font-=
family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;padding:15px 20=
px 20px 10px;color:rgb(0,0,0);"><div style=3D"zoom:1;"><div id=3D"yiv448799=
6018gmail-content1" style=3D"width:439.844px;padding:5px 10px;overflow:hidd=
en;"><span style=3D"text-decoration-line:underline;"><p style=3D"margin:0in=
0in 0pt;"><b>FAQ... How was my emblem created? </b></p><p>These ename=
led emblems are often, <b><span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,0);">=
incorrectly</span>, referred to as <i>cloisonn=C3=A9</i></b>. Cloisonn=
=C3=A9 is an enamel process in which separate bands of metal are bent then =
applied to a base. These labor intensive bands encase the enamel and create=
the design. <span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,0);">I have yet to=
see an automobile emblem done with cloisonn=C3=A9.</span> The process that=
is used is called <i>champlev=C3=A9</i> (pronounced shomp=C2=B4-=
leh-vay).</p></span><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt;">The champlev=C3=A9 tec=
hnique involves applying enamel into depressions in the base metal. Th=
ese depressions may be etched, engraved or, in the case of automobile emble=
ms, die stamped. The stamping process can also include the beautiful design=
work that shows under transparent enamels. </p><p>Historically the wo=
rd enamel meant glass but today it seems to refer to any shiny color. The c=
orrect terminology is <i>vitreous</i> [glass] enamel. It is a tru=
e glass that melts and fuses around 1400 degrees F. Enamel can be obt=
ained as opaque, translucent or transparent. The colors are created by the =
addition of metallic oxides to the glass.</p><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt=
;"><br></p><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt;"> <br></p></div></div></div=
></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"yiv44879=
96018gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 8:31 PM Gary R. =
Brierton <<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:gbrierton@hotmail.com"; t=
arget=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:gbrierton@hotmail.com";>gbrierton@hotmail.co=
m</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"yiv4487996018gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;col=
or:rgb(0,0,0);">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, serif, EmojiFont;=
">OK...let's try and clear this up. As I understand it, the "flat win=
gs with the Austin-Healey script" commonly seen on BN1, BN2 and (I don't kn=
ow when it stopped), had red paint of unknown
shade in the etched out lettering. Along came the larger badges with=
MKII or whatever, in
<span style=3D"font-family:new times, serif, serif, EmojiFont;font-size:16p=
x;">
cloisonne</span>. THEN, to really screw us up, those badges returned to red=
paint of unknown shade, seemingly during BJ8 production. As was true=
with almost everything involving our cars, the exact change VIN number for=
all of this is largely indeterminate,
at least as far as trim pieces are concerned...oh, and some major body par=
ts, like wings with one or two signaling lights, swag lines, whatever=
. Reliable reports (from D.M.H.!) state that the guiding principle in=
assembling our cars was "use up what was
on hand".</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, serif, EmojiFont;=
">I claim no expertise beyond owning Austin-Healeys and associating with th=
eir owners for over 50 years (so, mainly the 6 cylinder cars).</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:EmojiFont, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, Color =
UI NotoColorEmoji, UI EmojiSymbols;color:rgb(0,0,0);">
Take it away, Curt, Randy, Steve, et. al.<span>=F0=9F=98=81</span></div>
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;col=
or:rgb(0,0,0);">
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
eam.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
<br>
Archive: <a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.team.net/=
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llow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive";>http://autox=
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<br>
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ank" href=3D"mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net";>Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br>
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tox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/cnaarndt@gmail.com">http://autox.team.=
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</blockquote></div></div><blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>
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