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Kees, I have a different perspective. I revel in the diversity of =
fasteners and thread systems that the British have produced, many =
originally designed for a different application, which may or may not =
have been necessary, but I applaud those engineers for thinking out of =
the box. The metric system is, well, =E2=80=9Cboring=E2=80=9D comes to =
mind. I have enjoyed this thread as I have over the years marvelled not =
only at the diversity of thread systems but the diversity of =
manufacturers, and find it quaint but historically stimulating that they =
ornamented the bolt heads with their corporate names and symbols. It =
creates a picture the many little, and not so little, companies in the =
Midlands churning out fasteners (and a lot of the other sundry fittings =
on our cars) and driving (literally) the local and national economy. =
(BTW, no need to note =E2=80=9Cexcept the British=E2=80=9D, we never =
considered ourselves part of Europe =E2=80=93 it reminds me of an =
English phrase, wrongly attributed to a headline in the Times, =
=E2=80=9CFog over channel, Continent cut off=E2=80=9D J)
=20
Yours in mirth, Mirek
=20
From: Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kees =
Oudesluijs
Sent: November-22-18 4:59 AM
To: healeys@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] bolt identification
=20
Curtis, that is a very enlightening article. For us Europeans (exept the =
British) the UK denominations of material strength (and not to mention =
the total incomprehensible collection of all different sorts of threads =
in the UK) are an absolute nightmare. I also never knew the meaning of =
the lines on the heads of SEA/UNF/UNC bolts.
Concerning the metric bolts, before ca. 1970 the kgf/mm=C2=B2 (kilogram =
force per square mm) was used, equal to 9,8N/mm=C2=B2, in practice =
10N/mm=C2=B2. All my study books used the kgf/mm=C2=B2!
Kees Oudesluijs
Op 22-11-2018 om 09:32 schreef Curtis Arndt:
John,=20
=20
Like most British bolts of the earlier part of last century, the Vendor =
name was printed on the bolt, e.g. Rubery-Owen or RO, Bees, Wiley, Woden =
and about 30+ others. So to answer your question... BEES was the =
vendor. The bolt you refer to with an actual Bee on the head is a very =
early bolt, and is one that I have in my collection. It most likely is =
a Whitworth bolt, either BSF (fine) or BSW (coarse).
=20
The "Rubery Owen B28-35" that you refer to is a "Mild" steel bolt, =
similar to an SAE Grade "2" US bolt. The strength rating is "B" and the =
measurement is 28 to 35 tons per square inch or tons tensile. The range =
refers to "yield" strength and "ultimate tensile" strength as described =
in my attached article. FYI, multiply 28 or 35 times a ton and you'll =
get the strength in pounds, or psi... HOWEVER we're talking British =
here, so it's not 2,000 pounds as in a US ton but 2,240 pounds as in a =
British Long Ton!
=20
Along with the vendor name was the strength rating expressed as a letter =
which for hi tensile bolts was D, E, F and G prior to 1950 and changed =
to R, S, T, U, V, W, and X after 1950. I have included (attached) =
my draft on British Strength rating codes decoded which I hope to =
officially publish on my blog site once it's up and running.
=20
Also, the bolt heads were marked to differentiate Whitworth (BSW, BSF, =
etc...) from UNF and UNC once this new thread form system was phased in =
during the early 1950s. For bolts, that was a "circular" depression on =
the head of the bolt which meant the bolt was a "Unified" versus a =
"Whitworth" thread form bolt.
=20
I hope this helps and email me directly if you have any further =
questions.
=20
Cheers,
=20
Curt
=20
=20
=20
On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 9:01 PM Michael Oritt <michael.oritt@gmail.com> =
wrote:
Hi John--
=20
Check this out:
=20
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2zllShyvv34/UQLGj7XqZjI/AAAAAAAAPUg/e1--MCxAPKY=
/s1600/Bee:1.jpg
=20
Happy Thanksgiving to you and Cindi.
=20
Best--Michael Oritt
=20
On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:19 PM John Vrugtman <javrugtman@htcnet.org> =
wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubery_Owen
Bees bolts seem to be very obscure, saw a picture of one, but no =
reference to the manufacturer =20
On 11/21/2018 6:58 PM, warthodson@aol.com wrote:
I was sorting thru a box of hardware & found two bolts that I cannot =
identify. They both are approx. 1/4" diameter. They both have the same =
thread per inch. According to my thread gage they are between 24 & 26 =
TPI. So call it 25 TPI. I do not have a metric thread gage to check them =
against.
=20
One is marked "Rubery Owen B28-35" on the head & measures about 5/8" =
long. The other is marked "BEES" & has a embossed emblem of a bee on the =
head & measures about 3/4" long. The lengths do not include the head, of =
course. No other markings on the heads.
They will not accept a BSF nut, UNF or UNC nut or any metric nuts that I =
have.=20
=20
Can anyone ID these for me?
=20
Thanks,
Gary Hodson =20
=20
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive
Healeys@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michael.oritt@gmail.com
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive
Healeys@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/cnaarndt@gmail.com
_______________________________________________
=20
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive
=20
Healeys@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
=20
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/coudesluijs@chello.nl
=20
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=3Dwhite =
lang=3DEN-CA link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:window=
text'>Kees,=C2=A0 I have a different perspective. I revel in the =
diversity of fasteners and thread systems that the British have =
produced, many originally designed for a different application, which =
may or may not have been necessary, but I applaud those engineers for =
thinking out of the box.=C2=A0 The metric system is, well, =
=E2=80=9Cboring=E2=80=9D comes to mind. I have enjoyed this thread as I =
have over the years marvelled not only at the diversity of thread =
systems but the diversity of manufacturers, and find it quaint but =
historically stimulating that they ornamented the bolt heads with their =
corporate names and symbols.=C2=A0 It creates a picture the many little, =
and not so little, companies in the Midlands churning out fasteners (and =
a lot of the other sundry fittings on our cars) and driving (literally) =
the local and national economy. =C2=A0(BTW, no need to note =
=E2=80=9Cexcept the British=E2=80=9D, we never considered ourselves part =
of Europe =E2=80=93 it reminds me of an English phrase, wrongly =
attributed to a headline in the Times, =E2=80=9CFog over channel, =
Continent cut off=E2=80=9D </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:windowtext'>J</span=
><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:window=
text'>)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:window=
text'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:window=
text'>Yours in mirth,=C2=A0 Mirek<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:window=
text'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowt=
ext'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowt=
ext'> Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Kees Oudesluijs<br><b>Sent:</b> November-22-18 4:59 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
healeys@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] bolt =
identification<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p>Curtis, that is a very =
enlightening article. For us Europeans (exept the British) the UK =
denominations of material strength (and not to mention the total =
incomprehensible collection of all different sorts of threads in the UK) =
are an absolute nightmare. I also never knew the meaning of the lines on =
the heads of SEA/UNF/UNC bolts.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Concerning the metric =
bolts, before ca. 1970 the kgf/mm=C2=B2 (kilogram force per square mm) =
was used, equal to 9,8N/mm=C2=B2, in practice 10N/mm=C2=B2. All my study =
books used the kgf/mm=C2=B2!<o:p></o:p></p><p>Kees =
Oudesluijs<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Op 22-11-2018 om =
09:32 schreef Curtis Arndt:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>John, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Like most British bolts of the earlier part of last =
century, the Vendor name was printed on the bolt, e.g. Rubery-Owen or =
RO, Bees, Wiley, Woden and about 30+ others. So to answer your =
question... BEES was the vendor. The bolt you refer to with an =
actual Bee on the head is a very early bolt, and is one that I have in =
my collection. It most likely is a Whitworth bolt, either BSF =
(fine) or BSW (coarse).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> "Rubery Owen =
B28-35"</span> that you refer to is a "Mild" steel =
bolt, similar to an SAE Grade "2" US bolt. The strength =
rating is "B" and the measurement is 28 to 35 tons per square =
inch or tons tensile. The range refers to "yield" =
strength and "ultimate tensile" strength as described in my =
attached article. FYI, multiply 28 or 35 times a ton and you'll =
get the strength in pounds, or psi... HOWEVER we're talking =
British here, so it's not 2,000 pounds as in a US ton but 2,240 pounds =
as in a British Long Ton!<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Along with the vendor name was the strength rating =
expressed as a letter which for <u>hi tensile</u> bolts was D, E, F and =
G prior to 1950 and changed to R, S, T, U, V, W, =
and X after 1950. I have included (attached) my draft on British =
Strength rating codes decoded which I hope to officially publish on my =
blog site once it's up and running.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Also, the bolt heads were marked to differentiate =
Whitworth (BSW, BSF, etc...) from UNF and UNC once this new thread form =
system was phased in during the early 1950s. For bolts, that was a =
"circular" depression on the head of the bolt which meant the =
bolt was a "Unified" versus a "Whitworth" thread =
form bolt.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
hope this helps and email me directly if you have any further =
questions.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Curt<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 9:01 PM Michael Oritt <<a =
href=3D"mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com";>michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#3333FF'>Hi =
John--<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#3333FF'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#3333FF'>Check this =
out:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#3333FF'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#3333FF'><a =
href=3D"http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2zllShyvv34/UQLGj7XqZjI/AAAAAAAAPUg/e1-=
-MCxAPKY/s1600/Bee:1.jpg" =
target=3D"_blank">http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2zllShyvv34/UQLGj7XqZjI/AAAAA=
AAAPUg/e1--MCxAPKY/s1600/Bee:1.jpg</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p=
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#3333FF'>Happy Thanksgiving to =
you and Cindi.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#3333FF'>Best--Michael =
Oritt</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:19 PM John Vrugtman <<a =
href=3D"mailto:javrugtman@htcnet.org"; =
target=3D"_blank">javrugtman@htcnet.org</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><a =
href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubery_Owen"; =
target=3D"_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubery_Owen</a><br><br>Be=
es bolts seem to be very obscure, saw a picture of one, but no reference =
to the manufacturer <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
11/21/2018 6:58 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:warthodson@aol.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">warthodson@aol.com</a> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I was =
sorting thru a box of hardware & found two bolts that I cannot =
identify. They both are approx. 1/4" diameter. They both have the =
same thread per inch. According to my thread gage they are between 24 =
& 26 TPI. So call it 25 TPI. I do not have a metric thread gage to =
check them against.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </=
o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>One is =
marked "Rubery Owen B28-35" on the head & measures about =
5/8" long. The other is marked "BEES" & has a =
embossed emblem of a bee on the head & measures about 3/4" =
long. The lengths do not include the head, of course. No other markings =
on the heads.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>They will =
not accept a BSF nut, UNF or UNC nut or any metric nuts that I =
have. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </=
o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Can anyone =
ID these for me?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </=
o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks,<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Gary Hodson =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>__________________________________________=
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