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Al,
All I wanted to say is that some of the listers have been unfortunate
with the SU-pump while most others do not have the problems these
listers have encountered. There is no doubt that they had the problems.
I may not have used the proper wording as English is not my native tongue.
In my opinion the failures are not often due to the pumps themselves but
to the people, owners or mechanics, who maintain the cars (and thus
pumps). Most of the pumps I have dismantled show this. Nearly all failed
pumps I get in are in very good condition but for the adjustment or
corrosion of the points due to lack of knowledge of the pump, use and
maintenance or improper storage. Most are not aware that the pumps
should be serviced once in a while and do not know how to go about it.
Wacking the pump repeatedly and not servicing the pump first thing when
this happens shows that.
Other rare but unfortunate failures are a burned coil or leaking valves
through trapped dirt. As another lister suggested other factors like
fuel blockage may play a role as well.
Kees Oudesluijs
Op 29-11-2018 om 14:55 schreef Al Fuller:
>
> Kees: I wonder whether you can confirm that you really intended below
> to refer to the experiences of those who have had issues as â??some of
> you claimâ?¦â???
>
> If the SU-pumps would have been so unreliable as some of you claim,
> they would not have been used on such a large scale. Many millions of
> cars have had them in the 1930´s through to the 1990´s, from the
> humble Morris Minor to Rolls Royce.
>
> Sounds like you doubt peopleâ??s â??claimsâ?? to have been stuck on the side
> of the road, or under a teetering car with traffic passing by â??
> covered in gasoline, or spending time in hotel rooms working on fuel
> pumps, etc. As I said â?? just wondering whether you can confirm your
> intentâ?¦
>
> Al Fuller
>
> '65 BJ-8
>
> '85 Rx-7
>
> *From:*Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] *On Behalf Of
> *Kees Oudesluijs
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 29, 2018 5:15 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Fuel pumps (AGAIN!)
>
> It is not uncommon that a car´s service sheet also included the
> SU-pump (clean the points every service), e.g. Lotus Eclat/Elite.
> However I never did and I have had no problems. I used my car as a
> daily driver but it had to live outside all year. Nowadays the car is
> pampered in a heated garage and is mainly driven when the weather is
> suitable for open top driving except for long trips abroad.
>
> The pressure delivered by an SU-pump depends on where the pump is
> situated. If it is fitted under the bonnet it should be a so called
> low-pressure or suction pump delivering 1,8psi (e.g. some
> Austin-Healey Sprite/Mg Midget). You can often recognise this pump by
> the 2BA screw (same size as the screws that hold the coil housing to
> the pump body) on the coil housing for the earth spade. If the pump is
> fitted near the petrol tank it should be a so-called pressure pump
> delivering 2,7psi (e.g. MGB) or 3,8psi (Austin-Healey 3000, Jaguar
> 6-cyl. cars MkII, E-type etc., Triumph Stag, Jensen-Healey a.o.). The
> high pressure pumps can be recognised by a smaller 4BA screw for the
> earth spade. The pressure is fixed and is controlled by the spring
> fitted under the diaphragm. All pumps are identical as far as the
> coil housing, points system, diaphragm are concerned. The differences
> are in the pump body but this has no effect on the pressure, mainly on
> the variation of delivery pressure and flow rate. Some cars have the
> h.p. pump fitted on the chassis open to the elements (e.g. MGB, A-H),
> others have it protected in the boot (e.g. J-H).
>
> There are three types of spring, the low pressure 1,8psi spring can be
> easily recognised as the wire is rather thin and it has more coils,
> the 2,7 an3,8psi springs have less coils and look identical to each
> other but the 3,8psi spring is slightly thicker and should have a
> (faint) dab of red paint.
>
> If the SU-pumps would have been so unreliable as some of you claim,
> they would not have been used on such a large scale. Many millions of
> cars have had them in the 1930´s through to the 1990´s, from the
> humble Morris Minor to Rolls Royce.
>
> Sure, the early ones did wear the points rather quickly because of
> arcing/spark erosion, but this was counteracted by proper maintenance
> which was usually every 1000 to 3000miles in the 30´s up to the 50´s.
> The wear was significantly reduced by using a simple capacitor (very
> like the capacitor in the points distributor), then a diode and lately
> Burlen fitting a transil. The pumps are dual polarity except when a
> diode is fitted.
>
> However spark erosion is not the main problem, that is electrolytic
> corrosion due to lack of use and dampish conditions under the cover
> because of improper ventilation like no tubes connected from the pump
> to a dry area of the car (boot) or no rubber band or friction tape on
> the joint of the cover and coil housing or damp storage.
>
> I am not sure if the quality of the points you buy today is less than
> the old ones. I have never used them. I still have NOS points to
> replace worn points, but more often than once cleaning and repolishing
> the old points will do.
>
> Kees Oudesluijs
>
> Not trying to reinvent the wheel, David, just get a fuel pump that
> lasts. Others have had good service from points pumps like you,
> but I haven't. I'm not doing anything unusual; if you get them
> installed and they don't leak and they run that's about all you
> can do--there's no trick or secret to installing them that I know
> of. Mine just keep failing, with between a few hundred and up to
> 15K miles of service (this over about 140,000 miles I've put on my
> BJ8).  I will say I have driven through some serious downpours,
> so water entry into the switching compartment could be a problem,
> but some of the failures didn't get drowned.
>
> The points can be problematic, else SU wouldn't have gone from:
>
> 1) no arc suppression
>
> 2) capacitor arc suppression
>
> 3) diode arc suppression
>
> That is to say, SU wouldn't have gone to the expense and labor of
> installing capacitors and diodes if there wasn't some issue with
> reliability or longevity. I tried all three, with results as
> noted. I've installed the out-of-the-box, rebuilt and adjusted
> them myself, installed SS switching mechanism, used capacitors,
> diodes, TVSes, transistors and installed SU electronic out-of-the
> box with predictable results. I do recall your dad either writing
> or saying that they used to take the pumps out and service
> them--cleaning the points and adjusting the mechanism I
> presume--at 15K mile service when he worked at BMC (or was it BL,
> don't recall), so they aren't typically bulletproof forever.
>
> Maybe I pissed the SU gods off somehow; though both my sets of SU
> carbs have been all but bulletproof, and the basic points-type in
> my BN2 has worked for a few hundred miles.
>
> Bob
>
> On 11/28/2018 9:50 AM, healeydoc@gmail.com
>
> I do not understand the problem with the SU pump that everyone
> feels that they have to re invent the wheel. I have using the
> standard SU pump with points in my Healey for almost 75000
> miles and never had a failure.
>
> We also have been installing the standard SU points pump here
> at the shop on every car we do for over 40 years
>
> Everything from Healeyâ??s, MGâ??s and Jaguarâ??s and had very few
> failures.
>
> David Nock
> 209 948 8767
> www.britishcarspecialists.com
> <http://www.britishcarspecialists.com>
>
> Help us have our Founder Norman Nock inducteed into the
> British Sportscar Hall of Fame, You can vote for your favorites
> by visiting the site at.
> www.britishsportscarhall.org <http://www.britishsportscarhall.org>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Support Team.Nethttp://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
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>
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>
>
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>
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<p>Al,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>All I wanted to say is that some of the listers have been
unfortunate with the SU-pump while most others do not have the
problems these listers have encountered. There is no doubt that
they had the problems. I may not have used the proper wording as
English is not my native tongue.</p>
<p>In my opinion the failures are not often due to the pumps
themselves but to the people, owners or mechanics, who maintain
the cars (and thus pumps). Most of the pumps I have dismantled
show this. Nearly all failed pumps I get in are in very good
condition but for the adjustment or corrosion of the points due to
lack of knowledge of the pump, use and maintenance or improper
storage. Most are not aware that the pumps should be serviced once
in a while and do not know how to go about it. Wacking the pump
repeatedly and not servicing the pump first thing when this
happens shows that.<br>
</p>
<p>Other rare but unfortunate failures are a burned coil or leaking
valves through trapped dirt. As another lister suggested other
factors like fuel blockage may play a role as well. <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Kees Oudesluijs</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Op 29-11-2018 om 14:55 schreef Al
Fuller:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:017d01d487eb$340f9dd0$9c2ed970$@bighealey.org">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Kees:Â
I wonder whether you can confirm that you really intended
below to refer to the experiences of those who have had
issues as â??some of you claimâ?¦â??? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in">If the SU-pumps would have been so
unreliable as some of you claim, they would not have been used
on such a large scale. Many millions of cars have had them in
the 1930´s through to the 1990´s, from the humble Morris Minor
to Rolls Royce.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Sounds
like you doubt peopleâ??s â??claimsâ?? to have been stuck on the
side of the road, or under a teetering car with traffic
passing by â?? covered in gasoline, or spending time in hotel
rooms working on fuel pumps, etc. As I said â?? just
wondering whether you can confirm your
intentâ?¦<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Al
Fuller</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">'65
BJ-8</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">'85
Rx-7</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
Healeys [<a href="mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kees Oudesluijs<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 29, 2018 5:15 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Fuel pumps
(AGAIN!)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<p>It is not uncommon that a car´s service sheet also included
the SU-pump (clean the points every service), e.g. Lotus
Eclat/Elite. However I never did and I have had no problems. I
used my car as a daily driver but it had to live outside all
year. Nowadays the car is pampered in a heated garage and is
mainly driven when the weather is suitable for open top
driving except for long trips abroad.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The pressure delivered by an SU-pump depends on where the
pump is situated. If it is fitted under the bonnet it should
be a so called low-pressure or suction pump delivering 1,8psi
(e.g. some Austin-Healey Sprite/Mg Midget). You can often
recognise this pump by the 2BA screw (same size as the screws
that hold the coil housing to the pump body) on the coil
housing for the earth spade. If the pump is fitted near the
petrol tank it should be a so-called pressure pump delivering
2,7psi (e.g. MGB) or 3,8psi (Austin-Healey 3000, Jaguar 6-cyl.
cars MkII, E-type etc., Triumph Stag, Jensen-Healey a.o.). The
high pressure pumps can be recognised by a smaller 4BA screw
for the earth spade. The pressure is fixed and is controlled
by the spring fitted under the diaphragm. All pumps are
identical as far as the coil housing, points system, diaphragm
are concerned. The differences are in the pump body but this
has no effect on the pressure, mainly on the variation of
delivery pressure and flow rate. Some cars have the h.p. pump
fitted on the chassis open to the elements (e.g. MGB, A-H),
others have it protected in the boot (e.g. J-H).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>There are three types of spring, the low pressure 1,8psi
spring can be easily recognised as the wire is rather thin and
it has more coils, the 2,7 an3,8psi springs have less coils
and look identical to each other but the 3,8psi spring is
slightly thicker and should have a (faint) dab of red
paint.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>If the SU-pumps would have been so unreliable as some of you
claim, they would not have been used on such a large scale.
Many millions of cars have had them in the 1930´s through to
the 1990´s, from the humble Morris Minor to Rolls
Royce.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Sure, the early ones did wear the points rather quickly
because of arcing/spark erosion, but this was counteracted by
proper maintenance which was usually every 1000 to 3000miles
in the 30´s up to the 50´s. The wear was significantly reduced
by using a simple capacitor (very like the capacitor in the
points distributor), then a diode and lately Burlen fitting a
transil. The pumps are dual polarity except when a diode is
fitted. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>However spark erosion is not the main problem, that is
electrolytic corrosion due to lack of use and dampish
conditions under the cover because of improper ventilation
like no tubes connected from the pump to a dry area of the car
(boot) or no rubber band or friction tape on the joint of the
cover and coil housing or damp storage.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I am not sure if the quality of the points you buy today is
less than the old ones. I have never used them. I still have
NOS points to replace worn points, but more often than once
cleaning and repolishing the old points will do.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<p>Kees Oudesluijs<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p>Not trying to reinvent the wheel, David, just get a fuel
pump that lasts. Others have had good service from points
pumps like you, but I haven't. I'm not doing anything
unusual; if you get them installed and they don't leak and
they run that's about all you can do--there's no trick or
secret to installing them that I know of. Mine just keep
failing, with between a few hundred and up to 15K miles of
service (this over about 140,000 miles I've put on my
BJ8).  I will say I have driven through some serious
downpours, so water entry into the switching compartment
could be a problem, but some of the failures didn't get
drowned.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The points can be problematic, else SU wouldn't have gone
from:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>1) no arc suppression<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>2) capacitor arc suppression<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>3) diode arc suppression<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>That is to say, SU wouldn't have gone to the expense and
labor of installing capacitors and diodes if there wasn't
some issue with reliability or longevity. I tried all
three, with results as noted. I've installed the
out-of-the-box, rebuilt and adjusted them myself, installed
SS switching mechanism, used capacitors, diodes, TVSes,
transistors and installed SU electronic out-of-the box with
predictable results. I do recall your dad either writing or
saying that they used to take the pumps out and service
them--cleaning the points and adjusting the mechanism I
presume--at 15K mile service when he worked at BMC (or was
it BL, don't recall), so they aren't typically bulletproof
forever.  <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Maybe I pissed the SU gods off somehow; though both my sets
of SU carbs have been all but bulletproof, and the basic
points-type in my BN2 has worked for a few hundred
miles.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Bob<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 11/28/2018 9:50 AM, <a
href="mailto:healeydoc@gmail.com";
moz-do-not-send="true">healeydoc@gmail.com</a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Century",serif">I do
not understand the problem with the SU pump that
everyone feels that they have to re invent the
wheel. I have using the standard SU pump with
points in my Healey for almost 75000 miles and
never had a failure. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Century",serif">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Century",serif">We
also have been installing the standard SU points
pump here at the shop on every car we do for over
40 years <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Century",serif">Everything
from Healeyâ??s, MGâ??s and Jaguarâ??s and had very few
failures.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Century",serif">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Century",serif">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Century",serif">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Century",serif">David
Nock<br>
</span><a href="mailto:healeydoc@sbcglobal.net";
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Century",serif">healeydoc@sbcglobal.net</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Century",serif"><br>
209 948 8767<br>
</span><a
href="http://www.britishcarspecialists.com";
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Century",serif">www.britishcarspecialists.com</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Century",serif"><br>
<br>
Help us have our Founder Norman Nock inducteed
into the <br>
British Sportscar Hall of Fame, You can vote for
your favorites <br>
by visiting the site at.<br>
</span><a href="http://www.britishsportscarhall.org";
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Century",serif">www.britishsportscarhall.org</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Century",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Century",serif"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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