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Your description is as I understand things. I did some measurements and a
few comments about them.
I used a caliper gauge with inner and outer depth as well as length
abilities, accurate to .01 inches. My depth gauge wasn't long enough to
measure the entire length of the hub but I could measure length from inner
end of hub to outer bearing pressed all the way in to the shoulder and can
provide all numbers. As follows:
Depth from outer end of hub to shoulder: 3.25
Depth from inner end of hub to inner shoulder: 1.1
Depth from inner end of hub to outer shoulder and outer bearing race: 3.125
Length of chamfered spacer: 2
With these numbers, I come up with total length of 3.25 + 3.125 = 6.375.
>From shoulder to shoulder the length is 6.375 - 1.1 - 3.25 =2.025. This is
slightly longer than the length of the spacer. Also, the spacer has a
chamfer and the inner race is rounded. Combined, this provides more slop.
When I had both bearings in to the shoulder the spacer flopped around with
much more than the numbers above suggest, maybe .25 inch. I couldn't
perceive much movement of the inner races from the outer races (side thrust
movement), I am sure there is enough give there, so when the nut is
tightened the washer pushes against that inner race of the outer bearing
helping to tighten things up.
I inspected the inner spacers and they didn't show any wear, the ends still
looked machined and not worn.
I know of some instances when engineers allow the outer race to rotate
freely, but I don't believe this to be one of those situation. The inside of
the both ends still have the micro machining of circles, but none of the
bearing outer races seem worn by the machining, although it is perfectly
possible that they have been very smoothly worn down allowing the movement.
The manual suggests that these bearing are supposed to be tight: don't
remove bearing unless absolutely necessary.
Unfortunately, I don't know what parts to replace. As you suggest below,
maybe using an adhesive will help, but I don't know what the tolerances
should be to ensure success. The one outer bearing I can get to show wear.
The one spindle I looked at showed some wear on the inner race face
especially on one side. Moss doesn't have any spindles and I am tired of
buying expensive parts.
Clayton
From: Barney Gaylord [mailto:barneymg@mgaguru.com]
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2015 2:41 PM
To: crk@godblessthe.us; mgs@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] follow up on mga 1622 suspension issues
As requested, checking in.
The MGA Twin Cam cars and the "Deluxe" cars with pin drive steel wheels and
Dunlop all wheel disc brakes use tapered rolller bearings up front and do
require shims.
The MGA 1500, 1600 and 1600-MK-II with Lockheed brakes all use ball bearings
in the front hubs. These do not use shims. Distance between shoulders in
the rotating hub is eactly same as length of the inner race spacer. This
holds inner and outer bearing races exactly same distance apart when the
spindle nut is tight. Internal bearing clearance is then a function of
quality of construction of the ball bearings. If the bearings are loose
they need to be replaced. If the outer races get loose in the rotating hub
thebn the hub needs to be replaced. If wear in the hub bore is not too bad,
you might set the bearings into the hub with Loctite 620 bearing set
adhesive. The adhesive may require heat for future disassembly.
With inner race spacer in place, and both bearings pressed in with outer
races firmly against the hub shoulders, the inner races should touch the
spacer. Since there is a bit of internal clearance in the bearings, the
spacer may move around. If you squeeze the inner races together with the
spacer, this shoud hold the spacer in suspension. If there is clearance
between inner races and the spacer when pressed together, then there is a
mismatch of parts (spacer length not matching distance between shoulders of
the hub).
I don't have parts in hand to measure at the moment. Perhaps someone can
measure and post length of the inner race spacer for reference.
Barney (in Utah today).
At 01:39 PM 7/3/2015 -0700, Clayton Kirkwood via Mgs wrote:
....
Yep. From what I've learned here, one of the big differences between a 1600
and 1622 MkI and MkII v. the deluxe and twin cam, is the brakes. Up front,
the deluxe and twin cam have the Dunlop braking which do require the shims.
It isn't shown in the picture you quoted, but below in the listing, there
are shims listed for the deluxe and twin cam.
crk
From: Charley & Peggy Robinson [ mailto:ccrobins@ktc.com
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2015 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] follow up on mga 1622 suspension issues
.... Here's the intended page:
http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29224
I looked more carefully. There is a different spacer, outer bearing & the
shims for the Mk II DeLuxe & Twin Cam.
Trying to find the right MGA is a PITA. It looks like the Mk.II DeLuxe had
a 1622cc engine but it's still located as a MGA 1600 in most of the manuals.
I wish Barney would check in.
CR
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>Your description is as I understand things. I did some measurements and =
a few comments about them.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>I used a caliper gauge with inner and outer depth as well as length =
abilities, accurate to .01 inches. My depth gauge wasn’t long =
enough to measure the entire length of the hub but I could measure =
length from inner end of hub to outer bearing pressed all the way in to =
the shoulder and can provide all numbers. As =
follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>Depth from outer end of hub to shoulder: 3.25<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>Depth from inner end of hub to inner shoulder: =
1.1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>Depth from inner end of hub to outer shoulder and outer bearing race: =
3.125<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>Length of chamfered spacer: 2<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>With these numbers, I come up with total length of 3.25 + 3.125 =3D =
6.375. From shoulder to shoulder the length is 6.375 – 1.1 – =
3.25 =3D2.025. This is slightly longer than the length of the spacer. =
Also, the spacer has a chamfer and the inner race is rounded. Combined, =
this provides more slop. When I had both bearings in to the shoulder the =
spacer flopped around with much more than the numbers above suggest, =
maybe .25 inch. I couldn’t perceive much movement of the inner =
races from the outer races (side thrust movement), I am sure there is =
enough give there, so when the nut is tightened the washer pushes =
against that inner race of the outer bearing helping to tighten things =
up.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>I inspected the inner spacers and they didn’t show any wear, the =
ends still looked machined and not worn.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>I know of some instances when engineers allow the outer race to rotate =
freely, but I don’t believe this to be one of those situation. The =
inside of the both ends still have the micro machining of circles, but =
none of the bearing outer races seem worn by the machining, although it =
is perfectly possible that they have been very smoothly worn down =
allowing the movement. The manual suggests that these bearing are =
supposed to be tight: don’t remove bearing unless absolutely =
necessary.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>Unfortunately, I don’t know what parts to replace. As you suggest =
below, maybe using an adhesive will help, but I don’t know what =
the tolerances should be to ensure success. The one outer bearing I can =
get to show wear. The one spindle I looked at showed some wear on the =
inner race face especially on one side. Moss doesn’t have any =
spindles and I am tired of buying expensive =
parts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>Clayton<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> =
Barney Gaylord [mailto:barneymg@mgaguru.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, =
July 03, 2015 2:41 PM<br><b>To:</b> crk@godblessthe.us; =
mgs@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Mgs] follow up on mga 1622 =
suspension issues<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>As =
requested, checking in.<br><br>The MGA Twin Cam cars and the =
"Deluxe" cars with pin drive steel wheels and Dunlop all =
wheel disc brakes use tapered rolller bearings up front and do require =
shims.<br><br>The MGA 1500, 1600 and 1600-MK-II with Lockheed brakes all =
use ball bearings in the front hubs. These do not use shims. =
Distance between shoulders in the rotating hub is eactly same as length =
of the inner race spacer. This holds inner and outer bearing races =
exactly same distance apart when the spindle nut is tight. =
Internal bearing clearance is then a function of quality of construction =
of the ball bearings. If the bearings are loose they need to be =
replaced. If the outer races get loose in the rotating hub thebn =
the hub needs to be replaced. If wear in the hub bore is not too =
bad, you might set the bearings into the hub with Loctite 620 bearing =
set adhesive. The adhesive may require heat for future =
disassembly.<br><br>With inner race spacer in place, and both bearings =
pressed in with outer races firmly against the hub shoulders, the inner =
races should touch the spacer. Since there is a bit of internal =
clearance in the bearings, the spacer may move around. If you =
squeeze the inner races together with the spacer, this shoud hold the =
spacer in suspension. If there is clearance between inner races =
and the spacer when pressed together, then there is a mismatch of parts =
(spacer length not matching distance between shoulders of the =
hub).<br><br>I don't have parts in hand to measure at the moment. =
Perhaps someone can measure and post length of the inner race spacer for =
reference.<br><br>Barney (in Utah today).<br><br><br><br>At 01:39 PM =
7/3/2015 -0700, Clayton Kirkwood via Mgs =
wrote:<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>....<br>Yep. From what I’ve learned here, one of =
the big differences between a 1600 and 1622 MkI and MkII v. the deluxe =
and twin cam, is the brakes. Up front, the deluxe and twin cam have the =
Dunlop braking which do require the shims. It isn’t shown in the =
picture you quoted, but below in the listing, there are shims listed for =
the deluxe and twin cam.<br> <br>crk<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Charley & Peggy Robinson [<a =
href=3D"mailto:ccrobins@ktc.com";> mailto:ccrobins@ktc.com</a>] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 03, 2015 1:12 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:crk@godblessthe.us";>crk@godblessthe.us</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net";>mgs@autox.team.net</a><br><b>Subject:<=
/b> Re: [Mgs] follow up on mga 1622 suspension issues<br> <br>.... =
Here's the intended page:<br><a =
href=3D"http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D2=
9224">http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D292=
24</a> <br><br>I looked more carefully. There is a different =
spacer, outer bearing & the shims for the Mk II DeLuxe & Twin =
Cam.<br><br>Trying to find the right MGA is a PITA. It looks like =
the Mk.II DeLuxe had a 1622cc engine but it's still located as a MGA =
1600 in most of the manuals. I wish Barney would check =
in.<br><br>CR<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></body></html>
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