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The electric MG=E2=80=99s from China are quite popular in the Netherlands n=
owadays.
Price tag is half a Tesla model 3 price tag.
VW launched their electrical variants now in their models ID3 and ID4, wher=
e the ID3 is the most popular lease car currently.
Van: Mgs <mgs-bounces@autox.team.net> Namens Paul Root
Verzonden: dinsdag 6 april 2021 22:31
Aan: Paul Noble <noblepa@hotmail.com>
CC: mglist <mgs@autox.team.net>; MG-MGA-MGB <mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com>
Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: New MG Sport=
s Car Concept
The references I saw was 8 year 100k warranty for most of the US, 10 year 1=
50K for California.
The closest apples to apples that I see would be the Ford Focus electric, o=
r the VW Golf E-something.
I think Telsa cost so much because they are luxury cars. Also, Telsa is rea=
lly a software company, not a car company. I'm still not convinced they wil=
l make it as more car companies start building more electric cars. Reports =
I've seen, is that build quality for the Model 3, especially, is not great.=
I don't buy cars very often, If I buy 4 more cars (daily drivers) in my lif=
e, I would bet at least 2 will still have an engine.
epa@hotmail.com> > wrote:
When I said I had heard that batteries only lasted 50k miles, that was a fe=
w years ago. Perhaps I was misinformed or perhaps the batteries have improv=
ed.
That said, I am still not convinced of the economics of the situation.
It is difficult to make any kind of direct comparison between a gasoline an=
d an electric car. No one has, to my knowledge, ever put a gasoline engine =
in a Tesla. And while there have been many conversions in the opposite dire=
ction (replacing a gas engine with electric), these were not production veh=
icles. All the ones I've seen have simply replaced the gas engine with an e=
lectric motor, while retaining the transmission, clutch and differential. T=
his is not optimal.
The closest comparison I've ever seen was between a gasoline Honda Civic an=
d the hybrid version of the same car. IIRC, the gas version got around 40 m=
pg, while the hybrid got 45. Given that the hybrid was over $3k more than t=
he gas version, the payback period was many years.
Why does a Tesla cost so much? Who knows. It is almost certainly, in part, =
because it is electric. But there are other factors, as well. Compared to G=
M, Honda and Toyota, the Tesla is a pretty limited production vehicle. Seco=
ndly, it costs a LOT of money to start a car company from the ground up. Ju=
st ask Malcom Bricklin or John DeLorean. It may also be that Elon Musk made=
a conscious decision to position the Tesla in an upscale market for luxury=
cars. For some buyers, the high price is not a hindrance, but the primary =
attraction.
As far as EVs go, we're still in the early-adopter stage. As more and more =
vehicles become available, the economics will stabilize and the prices will=
come down.
I'm guessing that in twenty years, maybe less, EVs will be the norm. Gas ve=
hicles will be a niche product, sort of like vinyl records have become. Rig=
ht now, there are teething pains that must be overcome, and technical impro=
vements that must be made, but all that will happen. One area that I suspec=
t gas vehicles can never compete with electric vehicles is emissions. Gas c=
ars will never reach zero emissions. EVs are already there.
_____
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports =
Car Concept
Jason of Engineering Explained, bought a Telsa Model 3 last year. He's done=
2 2500 mile road trips, summer, and winter. And, of course, has done youtu=
be videos for them. Worth a look.
I hadn't heard that the batteries only last 50k miles. The first hit on a g=
oogle search says 100-150k and/or 8 years.
epa@hotmail.com> > wrote:
I've wondered about the same things, regarding electric and hybrid cars.
Another thing to consider is that lithium is environmentally problematic, b=
oth in mining it and disposing of it.
The problem is that gasoline is still one of the most economical, safest an=
d densest way to transport energy. In most cases, a tank of gasoline will t=
ake a car farther than a fully charged battery will.
The battery pack is usually much larger than the gas tank, and a lot heavie=
r.
I've never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've heard that you're lu=
cky to get 50,000 miles on a set of batteries. Replacing them costs about $=
3-4k. That's one reason I wouldn't even consider a used Prius, unless the s=
eller showed me receipts for a very recent battery replacement. A Prius (or=
Tesla for that matter) without batteries is like a conventional car withou=
t an engine. It might be a good deal, but you have to factor in the cost of=
replacing the batteries or engine.
Current (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a couple of hours=
, at least, to recharge a fully depleted set of batteries on a fully electr=
ic vehicle. That makes long trips a problem, if you have to stop every four=
hours for a two hour recharge. They could probably speed up the charging p=
rocess but that would require much higher voltages or current flow, both of=
which can be dangerous and create heat dissipation problems.
I've heard stories that rescue workers have been injured when trying to cut=
someone out of a crashed hybrid vehicle and accidentally cut through the m=
ain battery cable. I know that first responders have been trained for this =
now, but this remains a problem.
Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging stations. No=
one wants to spend a lot of money installing public charging stations unti=
l there are a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many buyers are reluctant=
to buy an EV because there are not many public charging stations. That is =
why one of the features of the proposed infrastructure bill now being debat=
ed in Congress includes funding to build charging stations.
_____
-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com> >
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM
Subject: Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car =
Concept
I am just looking to have a discussion, not an angry argument but feel I am=
missing something.
When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the similarity to the Tesla S. Turns out same=
guy Franz von Holzhausen designed both. Pretty similar.
Presuming the cars mission is the same. Build quality similar, tire usage =
and performance in real world use equivalent I did some comparisons. Stupi=
d fast Tesla acceleration is as useless as the Masda6's 600 mile per tank r=
ange. My bladder needs stops more frequently than 9 hours.
In 100,000 miles Tesla recharges ($22.00 for 250 miles, I got this from Tes=
la) would run $8,800.
In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35 miles per US Gallon and 10 - $65 oil change=
s the total is about $8,500.
But the Tesla costs over $70,000 and the Mazda6 half that.
Even if recharging at home was free, in 100,000 I am $25,000 dollars ahead.=
I am negating resale. A 100,000 Mazda6 is nicely broken in.. What's the =
$16.000 Tesla's battery life expectancy. I just do not know.
And a trip such as I just took to Montana last October, 5,000 miles would b=
e nearly impossible.
I was in areas where gas stations were few and far between and charging non=
-existent. One hotel out of 13 had charging stations. Rapid charging hurt=
s battery life. Standing around for a half hour a couple of times a day co=
uld get old.
I think the European model of changeable battery packs is what will win.
Design a platform where you pull in, drop the vehicle into a system much li=
ke an automated car wash, and come back in 5 minutes with a fresh battery. =
Changed from below.
Automatically changed. SUVs might have two batteries. Trucks might have =
more.
Your state of charge, car's pathway and prediction of needed packs would re=
port to your car your assigned swap spot so A: you knew you would have a ba=
ttery ready and B: that there was no need to squeeze every last drop out of=
yours. You'd pay a charge to belong to the system and what your battery h=
ad left. So if you wanted to stop every 2 hours for a rest break, just swap=
the half used battery.
I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW factory it is rare for the same model to b=
e built in order as the robots don't care.
The infrastructure of charging stations and having enough spigots is tough =
to see until many years from now.
So please, I take trips, not a lot and yes, I could just rent a car for tri=
ps, but the current model works for me.
A fun read on this topic, tongue firmly in cheek is:
1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries <https://ww=
w.caranddriver.com/features/a15112705/2013-tesla-model-s-vs-1915-ford-model=
-t-race-of-the-centuries-feature/>
1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries
We stage a multi-state enduro to find out if today's automotive pioneer can=
outrun its predecessor.
Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses pcresch@yahoo.com <m=
om>
On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT, Dan DiBiase <dan.dibiase@gmail.=
Yes, there are 7000-something individual cells bundled into about 15 module=
s that make up the battery pack in the Model 3/Y (77kWh battery).
Dan D
Central NJ USA
http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/
On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner <spr1ng19@outlook.com <mailto=
:spr1ng19@outlook.com> > wrote:
This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures of the Tesla wreck=
where the battery pack tore apart? There were thousands of little sub-c c=
ells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place. Somehow I never dream=
ed that those power packs were made up of cells all linked together.
_____
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept
Each to their own. I can't see myself ever buying an EV based on the curre=
nt range and recharging situation where they are little more than toys for =
local journeys. If I get to the point when I'm still around and driving bu=
t run out of satisfactory used 'real' cars to buy then I shall revert to us=
ing my V8 as a daily driver as I did before.
PaulH.
----- Original Message -----
Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) Based o=
n my first month with my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider anything wi=
th an electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan to buy another i=
nternal combustion vehicle for my daily use.
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DNL link=3Dblue vlink=
=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The el=
ectric MG=E2=80=99s from China are quite popular in the Netherlands nowaday=
s. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'm=
so-fareast-language:EN-US'>Price tag is half a Tesla model 3 price tag.<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'mso-fare=
ast-language:EN-US'>VW launched their electrical variants now in their mode=
ls ID3 and ID4, where the ID3 is the most popular lease car currently.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'mso-farea=
st-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;bo=
rder-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><b>Van:</b> Mgs <mgs-bounces@autox.team.net> <b>Namens </b>Paul Roo=
t<br><b>Verzonden:</b> dinsdag 6 april 2021 22:31<br><b>Aan:</b> Paul Noble=
<noblepa@hotmail.com><br><b>CC:</b> mglist <mgs@autox.team.net>=
;; MG-MGA-MGB <mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com><br><b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: =
[Mgs] Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: New MG Sports Car Concept<o=
:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal>The references I saw was 8 year 100k warranty for most of=
the US, 10 year 150K for California. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DM=
soNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>The closest a=
pples to apples that I see would be the Ford Focus electric, or the VW Golf=
E-something. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I think Telsa cost so much=
because they are luxury cars. Also, Telsa is really a software compan=
y, not a car company. I'm still not convinced they will make it as more car=
companies start building more electric cars. Reports I've seen, is th=
at build quality for the Model 3, especially, is not great. <o:p></o:p=
></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal>I don't buy cars very often, If I buy 4 more cars (daily dri=
vers) in my life, I would bet at least 2 will still have an engine. <o=
:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 3:06 PM Paul Noble <<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:noblepa@hotmail.com";>noblepa@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o=
:p></p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0=
pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>When I sa=
id I had heard that batteries only lasted 50k miles, that was a few years&n=
bsp;ago. Perhaps I was misinformed or perhaps the batteries have improved.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>That said, I am still =
not convinced of the economics of the situation.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:12.0pt;color:black'>It is difficult to make any kind of direct compa=
rison between a gasoline and an electric car. No one has, to my knowledge, =
ever put a gasoline engine in a Tesla. And while there have been many conve=
rsions in the opposite direction (replacing a gas engine with electric), th=
ese were not production vehicles. All the ones I've seen have simply replac=
ed the gas engine with an electric motor, while retaining the transmission,=
clutch and differential. This is not optimal. <o:p></o:p></span></p><=
/div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'=
><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>The closest comparison I've ever seen was be=
tween a gasoline Honda Civic and the hybrid version of the same car. IIRC, =
the gas version got around 40 mpg, while the hybrid got 45. Given that the =
hybrid was over $3k more than the gas version, the payback period was many =
years.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Why does a=
Tesla cost so much? Who knows. It is almost certainly, in part, because it=
is electric. But there are other factors, as well. Compared to GM, Honda a=
nd Toyota, the Tesla is a pretty limited production vehicle. Secondly, it c=
osts a LOT of money to start a car company from the ground up. Just ask Mal=
com Bricklin or John DeLorean. It may also be that Elon Musk made a conscio=
us decision to position the Tesla in an upscale market for luxury cars. For=
some buyers, the high price is not a hindrance, but the primary attraction=
=2E<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>As far as EVs go,=
we're still in the early-adopter stage. As more and more vehicles become a=
vailable, the economics will stabilize and the prices will come down. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I'm guessing that in =
twenty years, maybe less, EVs will be the norm. Gas vehicles will be a nich=
e product, sort of like vinyl records have become. Right now, there are tee=
thing pains that must be overcome, and technical improvements that must be =
made, but all that will happen. One area that I suspect gas vehicles can ne=
ver compete with electric vehicles is emissions. Gas cars will never reach =
zero emissions. EVs are already there.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div clas=
s=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><hr size=3D2 width=
=3D"98%" align=3Dcenter></div><div id=3D"gmail-m_-3434465552149103660divRpl=
yFwdMsg"><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'color:black'>From:</span></=
b><span style=3D'color:black'> Paul Root <<a href=3D"mailto:ptroot@gmail=
=2Ecom" target=3D"_blank">ptroot@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday,=
April 6, 2021 3:30 PM<br><b>To:</b> Paul Noble <<a href=3D"mailto:noble=
pa@hotmail.com" target=3D"_blank">noblepa@hotmail.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b>=
mglist <<a href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">mgs@aut=
ox.team.net</a>>; MG-MGA-MGB <<a href=3D"mailto:mg-mga-mgb@googlegrou=
ps.com" target=3D"_blank">mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com</a>><br><b>Subject=
:</b> Re: Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car=
Concept</span> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p><=
/p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Jason of Engineering Explaine=
d, bought a Telsa Model 3 last year. He's done 2 2500 mile road trips,=
summer, and winter. And, of course, has done youtube videos for them. Wort=
h a look. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p><=
/p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I hadn't heard that the batteries only l=
ast 50k miles. The first hit on a google search says 100-150k and/or 8 year=
s.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div=
></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal>On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:19 PM Paul Noble <<a href=3D"mailto:noblep=
a@hotmail.com" target=3D"_blank">noblepa@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o=
:p></p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0=
pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I've wond=
ered about the same things, regarding electric and hybrid cars.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;c=
olor:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Another thing to consider is that=
lithium is environmentally problematic, both in mining it and disposing of=
it.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>The problem is th=
at gasoline is still one of the most economical, safest and densest way to =
transport energy. In most cases, a tank of gasoline will take a car farther=
than a fully charged battery will.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p=
></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt=
;color:black'>The battery pack is usually much larger than the gas tank, an=
d a lot heavier.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I've =
never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've heard that you're lucky t=
o get 50,000 miles on a set of batteries. Replacing them costs about $3-4k.=
That's one reason I wouldn't even consider a used Prius, unless the seller=
showed me receipts for a very recent battery replacement. A Prius (or Tesl=
a for that matter) without batteries is like a conventional car without an =
engine. It might be a good deal, but you have to factor in the cost of repl=
acing the batteries or engine.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p=
></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt=
;color:black'>Current (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a c=
ouple of hours, at least, to recharge a fully depleted set of batteries on =
a fully electric vehicle. That makes long trips a problem, if you have to s=
top every four hours for a two hour recharge. They could probably speed up =
the charging process but that would require much higher voltages or current=
flow, both of which can be dangerous and create heat dissipation problems.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I've heard stories th=
at rescue workers have been injured when trying to cut someone out of a cra=
shed hybrid vehicle and accidentally cut through the main battery cable. I =
know that first responders have been trained for this now, but this remains=
a problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Of course,=
there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging stations. No one wants=
to spend a lot of money installing public charging stations until there ar=
e a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many buyers are reluctant to buy an=
EV because there are not many public charging stations. That is why one of=
the features of the proposed infrastructure bill now being debated in Cong=
ress includes funding to build charging stations.<o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><hr siz=
e=3D2 width=3D"98%" align=3Dcenter></div><div id=3D"gmail-m_-34344655521491=
03660x_gmail-m_-6992287651865967615divRplyFwdMsg"><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><=
span style=3D'color:black'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'color:black'> 'Pa=
ul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB <<a href=3D"mailto:mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> Tu=
esday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM<br><b>To:</b> James Dillner <<a href=3D"mai=
lto:spr1ng19@outlook.com" target=3D"_blank">spr1ng19@outlook.com</a>>; D=
an DiBiase <<a href=3D"mailto:dan.dibiase@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">d=
an.dibiase@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> PaulBHunt73 <<a href=3D"mailt=
o:paulbhunt73@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">paulbhunt73@gmail.com</a>>; m=
glist <<a href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">mgs@autox=
=2Eteam.net</a>>; MG-MGA-MGB <<a href=3D"mailto:mg-mga-mgb@googlegrou=
ps.com" target=3D"_blank">mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com</a>><br><b>Subject=
:</b> Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Con=
cept</span> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><=
/div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>I am just looking to have a d=
iscussion, not an angry argument but feel I am missing something.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt=
;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times N=
ew Roman",serif'>When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the similarity to the Tesla =
S. Turns out same guy Franz von Holzhausen designed both. Pretty simi=
lar.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span=
></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Times New Roman",serif'>Presuming the cars mission is the same. =
; Build quality similar, tire usage and performance in real world use equiv=
alent I did some comparisons. Stupid fast Tesla acceleration is as us=
eless as the Masda6's 600 mile per tank range. My bladder needs=
stops more frequently than 9 hours.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman=
",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>In 100,000 m=
iles Tesla recharges ($22.00 for 250 miles, I got this from Tesla) would ru=
n $8,800.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35 miles =
per US Gallon and 10 - $65 oil changes the total is about $8,500.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt=
;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times N=
ew Roman",serif'>But the Tesla costs over $70,000 and the Mazda6 half that.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Times New Roman",serif'>Even if recharging at home was free, in 100,000 =
I am $25,000 dollars ahead. I am negating resale. A 100,000 Maz=
da6 is nicely broken in.. What's the $16.000 Tesla's battery life expectanc=
y. I just do not know.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'=
><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>And a trip such as I=
just took to Montana last October, 5,000 miles would be nearly impossible.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Times New Roman",serif'>I was in areas where gas stations were few and f=
ar between and charging non-existent. One hotel out of 13 had chargin=
g stations. Rapid charging hurts battery life. Standing around =
for a half hour a couple of times a day could get old.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",=
serif'>I think the European model of changeable battery packs is what will =
win.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span=
></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Times New Roman",serif'>Design a platform where you pull in, drop th=
e vehicle into a system much like an automated car wash, and come back in 5=
minutes with a fresh battery. Changed from below.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"=
,serif'>Automatically changed. SUVs might have two batteries.&n=
bsp; Trucks might have more.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'=
><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Your state of charge=
, car's pathway and prediction of needed packs would report to your car you=
r assigned swap spot so A: you knew you would have a battery ready and B: t=
hat there was no need to squeeze every last drop out of yours. You'd =
pay a charge to belong to the system and what your battery had left. So if =
you wanted to stop every 2 hours for a rest break, just swap the half used =
battery.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW facto=
ry it is rare for the same model to be built in order as the robots don't c=
are.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span=
></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Times New Roman",serif'>The infrastructure of charging stations and =
having enough spigots is tough to see until many years from now.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times Ne=
w Roman",serif'>So please, I take trips, not a lot and yes, I could just re=
nt a car for trips, but the current model works for me.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",=
serif'>A fun read on this topic, tongue firmly in cheek is:<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Rom=
an",serif'><a href=3D"https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15112705/2013-=
tesla-model-s-vs-1915-ford-model-t-race-of-the-centuries-feature/" target=
=3D"_blank">1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries=
</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span=
></p></div><div id=3D"gmail-m_-3434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-69922876518659=
67615x_ydpf9e5fe71enhancr_card_8017187199"><table class=3DMsoNormalTable bo=
rder=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 style=3D'max-width:300.0pt'><tr><t=
d width=3D400 style=3D'width:300.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><table class=
=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D1 cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 style=3D'max-w=
idth:300.0pt;border:solid #E0E4E9 1.0pt'><tr style=3D'height:105.0pt'><td v=
align=3Dtop style=3D'border:none;background:black;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm;h=
eight:105.0pt'><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 cel=
lpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><td valign=3Dtop sty=
le=3D'padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cel=
lspacing=3D3 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><td =
valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:11.25pt 0cm 0cm 11.25pt'></td><td valign=3Dto=
p style=3D'padding:11.25pt 11.25pt 0cm 0cm'></td></tr></table></td></tr></t=
able></td></tr><tr><td style=3D'border:none;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm;border-=
radius:0px 0px 0px 2px'><div align=3Dcenter><table class=3DMsoNormalTable b=
order=3D1 cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 style=3D'max-width:300.0pt;backgr=
ound:white;border:none;border-top:solid #E0E4E9 1.0pt;border-radius:0px 0px=
2px 2px'><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'border:none;padding:12.0pt 0cm 12.0=
pt 9.0pt'></td><td width=3D"99%" style=3D'width:99.0%;border:none;padding:9=
=2E0pt 18.0pt 12.0pt 9.0pt;border-radius:0px 0px 2px'><h2 style=3D'mso-marg=
in-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:4.5pt;margin-left:0cm;line-he=
ight:14.25pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-s=
erif;color:#26282A'>1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the C=
enturies<o:p></o:p></span></h2><p style=3D'margin:0cm;line-height:12.0pt'><=
span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#979B=
A7'>We stage a multi-state enduro to find out if today's automotive pioneer=
can outrun its predecessor.<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table></div><=
/td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0=
pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times=
New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o=
:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span=
></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roma=
n",serif'>Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses <a href=3D=
"mailto:pcresch@yahoo.com"; target=3D"_blank">pcresch@yahoo.com</a> <a href=
=3D"mailto:resch@reschonline.com"; target=3D"_blank">resch@reschonline.com</=
a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></di=
v><div id=3D"gmail-m_-3434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-6992287651865967615x_yd=
p7f46dc1ayahoo_quoted_8717513317"><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>On =
Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT, Dan DiBiase <<a href=3D"mailto:=
dan.dibiase@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">dan.dibiase@gmail.com</a>> wrot=
e: <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> =
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></=
span></p></div><div><div id=3D"gmail-m_-3434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-69922=
87651865967615x_ydp7f46dc1ayiv7836723387"><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#262=
82A'>Yes, there are 7000-something individual cells bundled into about=
15 modules that make up the battery pack in the Model 3/Y (77kWh battery).=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></=
span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Dan D<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
</div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Central NJ USA<br clear=3Dall><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><a href=3D"http:=
//dandibiase.cbintouch.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://dandibiase.cbintouch.=
com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'=
><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p=
> </o:p></span></p><div id=3D"gmail-m_-3434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-6=
992287651865967615x_ydp7f46dc1ayiv7836723387yqt18265"><div><div><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-seri=
f;color:#26282A'>On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner <<a href=
=3D"mailto:spr1ng19@outlook.com"; target=3D"_blank">spr1ng19@outlook.com</a>=
> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;bor=
der-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;ma=
rgin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.=
0pt;color:black'>This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures o=
f the Tesla wreck where the battery pack tore apart? There were thous=
ands of little sub-c cells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place.&=
nbsp; Somehow I never dreamed that those power packs were made up of cells =
all linked together. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:cen=
ter'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;col=
or:#26282A'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"98%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><div id=
=3D"gmail-m_-3434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-6992287651865967615x_ydp7f46dc1a=
yiv7836723387gmail-m_1494527823292593023divRplyFwdMsg"><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><b><span style=3D'color:black'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'color:black'=
> <a href=3D"mailto:mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com"; target=3D"_blank">mg-mga-m=
gb@googlegroups.com</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com</a>> on behalf of PaulBHun=
t73 <<a href=3D"mailto:paulbhunt73@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">paulbhun=
t73@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM<br><b=
>Cc:</b> mglist <<a href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank"=
>mgs@autox.team.net</a>>; MG-MGA-MGB <<a href=3D"mailto:MG-MGA-MGB@go=
oglegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">MG-MGA-MGB@googlegroups.com</a>><br><b=
>Subject:</b> Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept</span><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'> <o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>E=
ach to their own. I can't see myself ever buying an EV based on =
the current range and recharging situation where they are little more than =
toys for local journeys. If I get to the point when I'm still ar=
ound and driving but run out of satisfactory used 'real' cars&nbs=
p;to buy then I shall revert to using my V8 as a daily driver as I did befo=
re.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'backgroun=
d:white'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif=
;color:#26282A'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"He=
lvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>PaulH.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><block=
quote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0c=
m 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:=
5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>----- Origin=
al Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal styl=
e=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helveti=
ca",sans-serif;color:#26282A'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Hans - one could argu=
e that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) Based on my first month with=
my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider anything with an electric drivet=
rain from this point on. I don't plan to buy another internal combustion ve=
hicle for my daily use.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>-- <br>You received this =
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o view this discussion on the web visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.co=
m/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B%40paul?utm_medium=3De=
mail&utm_source=3Dfooter" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/d=
/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B%40paul</a>.<o:p></o:p></=
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=2E0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>-- <br>You receive=
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5240817DEF75E6ECFBB4499D769%40MN2PR12MB3152.namprd12.prod.outlook.com</a>.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>-=
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tps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CABxEc%2BnxBjy6ZRBmYz-QevawgKF2v=
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