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Re: [Shop-talk] plumping question and sandrock sewers

To: Nick Brearley <nick@landform.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] plumping question and sandrock sewers
From: pethier@comcast.net
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 13:49:42 +0000
From: Nick Brearley <nick@landform.co.uk>
> pethier@comcast.net wrote:
> >
> > I have mentioned that Saint Paul is a river-bluff town.  Our city datum for 
> > elevations is USGS sea level minus 694.10 feet.  This is based on some 
> > point at some steamboat landing circa 1850.  
> Hi Phil,
> 
> Interesting stuff, labour must have been cheap in those days. 

Yes, it was.  If we were starting fresh today, with expensive labor and 
advanced machinery, those sewers would probably be conventional.

> A lot of 
> Cornish tin miners emigrated to the US in the 1800s. Saint Paul would 
> have been a natural home for them. 

I don't know that there were a lot of workers with actual mining experience.  
Just whomever was hungry, strong, and fearless.

Actually, many of the Cornish miners went to the U.P. of Michigan and to 
northern Minnesota.  Their influence is felt here.  You can buy pasties in all 
the grocery stores up there.  You can find them in the Twin Cities if you look. 
 We get pasties twice a year from a church in Maplewood.  They make them up in 
the church basement.

>One small point, could that datum be 
> plus 694.10 feet?

It's all in how you look at it.  We say "minus" because the USGS number on a 
plan is larger than the City Datum number.

USGS sea level reading - 694.10  =  Saint Paul City Datum

If the invert of a manhole is 810 feet above sea level, it will be shown on our 
maps as 115.90.

Conversely, the sanitary manhole at Laurel and Griggs is marked 221.0.  The 
invert of that manhole is 915.1 feet above sea level (roughly 221 feet above 
the Mississippi River).

If a surveyor shoots a job and marks the elevations in sea-level (he must be 
from out of town), you must subtract 694.10 from each reading to determine 
relationships to sewer maps.  The normal procedure if you are a private 
surveyor is to phone our Survey Division for benchmarks.  The tech here will 
give you the city-datum elevations for the top nuts of at least two fire 
hydrants near your job.  You go to the site and shoot the hydrants.  It they 
all agree with each other according to the benchmarks, you can shoot the site 
in confidence.  If they do not agree, call our Survey Division because one of 
the hydrants has been hit by a car and replaced by Water Services and not yet 
re-shot by Survey.  

Sometimes a surveyor will not call for benchmarks and just pick a random place 
on the site and call it "100.00".   I hate that.  When you design a house, you 
should know the elevation of available sewer.  It is expensive and annoying to 
make sludge flow uphill.  The builder ought to spec the job for the surveyor to 
supply elevations tied to a standard.

--
Phil Ethier  West Side  Saint Paul Minnesota  USA
1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban,
1994 Miata C package
pethier [at] comcast [dot] net    http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier
I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language.
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