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Re: [Shop-talk] Weird clutch petal

To: Pat Horne <patintexas@icloud.com> definitions=2019-10-12_13:, , signatures=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1910120206
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Weird clutch petal
From: Robert Nogueirao via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2019 17:30:17 -0500
Cc: Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: shop-talk@autox.team.net
References: <AB5C80AB-DAFA-4CF4-9787-79BC84DE69B8@icloud.com>
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Pat thank,  but having inspected the master it appears to be such a poorly m=
ade copy of a Girling I see nothing but trouble in the future.the piston doe=
s not slide smoothly in the bore leading me to think it is hanging up. Same w=
ith the reservoir cut off .
Again thanks.

Bob Nogueira=20

> On Oct 11, 2019, at 11:15 PM, Pat Horne <patintexas@icloud.com> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BFYou should be able to find a set of seals to try. Lots cheaper th=
an a replacement master.=20
>=20
> In the past I found this kind of leak by having someone watching the fluid=
 surface in the reservoir while I pressed the pedal down. On my master there=
 was a rise of the fluid where the jet of fluid came out of the reservoir to=
 cylinder hole, causing a =E2=80=9Clump=E2=80=9D in the fluid surface, indic=
ating a bad seal.=20
>=20
> Peace,
> Pat
>=20
> Pat Horne=20
> We support Habitat for Humanity
>=20
>=20
>>> On Oct 11, 2019, at 10:46 PM, Robert Nogueirao via Shop-talk <shop-talk@=
autox.team.net> wrote:
>>>=20
>> =EF=BB=BFOkay bleed the lines no solution, chance of air in the lines is r=
emote, the slave is higher than the master, the run between them is only a f=
oot or so and the line turns down for only a couple of inches between them. A=
dditionally the bleederis at the highest point of the slave. =20
>> The lines are new as is the slave and master.  =20
>> I did disassemble the master to check it out and it appears to be a Girli=
ng knockoff. The piston and reservoir shut off valve feel cheaply made. I=E2=
=80=99m thinking that the reservoir shutoff may be leaking a bit until press=
ure is built up thus forcing fluid into the reservoir rather than to the sla=
ve.  Only way to check is order a new Girling master from Pegasus, basically=
 a $125 gamble.
>> Right now Donald and Pat are in the problem solving playoffs.  =20
>> Will advise if the gamble pays off
>> Thanks for the suggestions.=20
>>=20
>> Bob Nogueira=20
>>=20
>> B
>>=20
>>> On Oct 9, 2019, at 7:18 PM, Donald H Locker via Shop-talk <shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net> wrote:
>>>=20
>> =EF=BB=BFIt would sound like air to me, too, but that it works "90% of th=
e time" which would indicate to me that one of the seals is not sealing prop=
erly.
>>=20
>> It's been a while, but I had a similar experience, and discovered that if=
 I hit the pedal quick and hard, the clutch action was good; if not fast or h=
ard enough, the pedal was soft.
>>=20
>> My guess is that a seal is old and not always flaring out to the MC bore w=
hen the pedal is pressed.
>>=20
>> Donald.
>> --
>> *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
>> () no proprietary attachments; no html mail
>> /\ <http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml>
>>=20
>>> On 2019-10-09 8:03 p.m., PJ McGarvey via Shop-talk wrote:
>>> Sounds indicative of air in the lines, since the first pump is weak/soft=
, but as you pump it a few more times you get more pressure. Check for loose=
 connections and then bleed a whole bottle of fluid.
>>> PJ
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------=

>>> *From:* Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Tom Sh=
irley Sr. via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 9, 2019 7:46 PM
>>> *Cc:* Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Weird clutch petal
>>> Air in the lines?
>>> On Wed, Oct 9, 2019, 6:38 PM Robert Nogueirao via Shop-talk <shop-talk@a=
>>>    I have a  hydraulic clutch, Girling 5/8=E2=80=9D master and a interna=
l slave
>>>    that fits over the input shaft. Both are new.  Problem is I have a
>>>    really good feeling petal, no leaks and good operation 90% of the
>>>    time but occasionally when you depress the clutch to change gears
>>>    the petal feels soft and will not fully release the clutch. Letting
>>>    the petal out and again depressing it and the feel and release are
>>>    again normal. Reservoir shows no lost of fluid.
>>>    Since the slave is mounted on the input shaft and operates directly
>>>    on the throw out bearing there is no linkage to cause the problem.
>>>    Any suggestions as to what could be causing this problem?
>>>    Bob Nogueira
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>    Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>>    Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>>>    http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>    Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>>    http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tomshirleysr44@gmail.=
com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Shop-talk@autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/a=
rchive
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dhlo=
cker@comcast.net
>> _______________________________________________
>>=20
>> Shop-talk@autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar=
chive
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/noger=
a@icloud.com
>>=20
> _______________________________________________
>=20
> Shop-talk@autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arc=
hive
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patint=
exas@icloud.com
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Pat thank, &nbsp;but having inspected the m=
aster it appears to be such a poorly made copy of a Girling I see nothing bu=
t trouble in the future.the piston does not slide smoothly in the bore leadi=
ng me to think it is hanging up. Same with the reservoir cut off .<div>Again=
 thanks.<br><div><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob Nogueira&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Oct 11, 2019, at 11:15 PM, Pat Horne &lt=
;patintexas@icloud.com&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=
=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" conten=
t=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">You should be able to find a set of seals t=
o try. Lots cheaper than a replacement master.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>In t=
he past I found this kind of leak by having someone watching the fluid surfa=
ce in the reservoir while I pressed the pedal down. On my master there was a=
 rise of the fluid where the jet of fluid came out of the reservoir to cylin=
der hole, causing a =E2=80=9Clump=E2=80=9D in the fluid surface, indicating a=
 bad seal.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Peace,</div><div>Pat<br><br><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">Pat Horne&nbsp;<div>We support Habitat for Humanity</div><div><br=
></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Oct 11, 2019,=
 at 10:46 PM, Robert Nogueirao via Shop-talk &lt;shop-talk@autox.team.net&gt=
; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<meta http-equi=
v=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><span style=3D"-we=
bkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Okay bleed the lines no solution, chance of ai=
r in the lines is remote, the slave is higher than the master, the run betwe=
en them is only a foot or so and the line turns down for only a couple of in=
ches between them. Additionally&nbsp;<a href=3D"x-apple-data-detectors://0" d=
ir=3D"ltr" x-apple-data-detectors=3D"true" x-apple-data-detectors-type=3D"mi=
sc" x-apple-data-detectors-result=3D"0" style=3D"color: currentcolor; text-d=
ecoration-color: rgba(127, 127, 127, 0.380392);">the bleeder</a>is at the hi=
ghest point of the slave. &nbsp;</span><br style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust=
: auto;"><span style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">The lines are new a=
s is the slave and master. &nbsp;&nbsp;</span><br style=3D"-webkit-text-size=
-adjust: auto;"><span style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">I did disass=
emble the master to check it out and it appears to be a Girling knockoff. Th=
e piston and reservoir shut off valve feel cheaply made. I=E2=80=99m thinkin=
g that the reservoir shutoff may be leaking a bit until pressure is built up=
 thus forcing fluid into the reservoir rather than to the slave. &nbsp;Only w=
ay to check is order a new Girling master from Pegasus, basically a $125 gam=
ble.</span><br style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style=3D"-web=
kit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Right now Donald and Pat are in the problem sol=
ving playoffs. &nbsp;&nbsp;</span><br style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: aut=
o;"><span style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Will advise if the gambl=
e pays off</span><br style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style=3D=
"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Thanks for the suggestions.&nbsp;</span><b=
r style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style=3D"-webkit-text-size=
-adjust: auto;"></span><br style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span s=
tyle=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Bob Nogueira&nbsp;</span><br><br><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr">B</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Oct 9=
, 2019, at 7:18 PM, Donald H Locker via Shop-talk &lt;shop-talk@autox.team.n=
et&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D=
"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<span>It would sound like air to me, too, but that it works "=
90% of the time" which would indicate to me that one of the seals is not sea=
ling properly.</span><br><span></span><br><span>It's been a while, but I had=
 a similar experience, and discovered that if I hit the pedal quick and hard=
, the clutch action was good; if not fast or hard enough, the pedal was soft=
.</span><br><span></span><br><span>My guess is that a seal is old and not al=
ways flaring out to the MC bore when the pedal is pressed.</span><br><span><=
/span><br><span>Donald.</span><br><span>--</span><br><span>*Plain Text* emai=
l -- it's an accessibility issue</span><br><span>() no proprietary attachmen=
ts; no html mail</span><br><span>/\ &lt;http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html=
_email_is_evil.shtml&gt;</span><br><span></span><br><span>On 2019-10-09 8:03=
 p.m., PJ McGarvey via Shop-talk wrote:</span><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">=
<span>Sounds indicative of air in the lines, since the first pump is weak/so=
ft, but as you pump it a few more times you get more pressure. Check for loo=
se connections and then bleed a whole bottle of fluid.</span><br></blockquot=
e><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>PJ</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=
=3D"cite"><span>------------------------------------------------------------=
------------</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>*From:* S=
hop-talk &lt;shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net&gt; on behalf of Tom Shirley S=
r. via Shop-talk &lt;shop-talk@autox.team.net&gt;</span><br></blockquote><bl=
ockquote type=3D"cite"><span>*Sent:* Wednesday, October 9, 2019 7:46 PM</spa=
n><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>*Cc:* Shop-talk &lt;shop-=
talk@autox.team.net&gt;</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><sp=
an>*Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Weird clutch petal</span><br></blockquote><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite"><span>Air in the lines?</span><br></blockquote><blockq=
uote type=3D"cite"><span>On Wed, Oct 9, 2019, 6:38 PM Robert Nogueirao via S=
hop-talk &lt;shop-talk@autox.team.net &lt;mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.net&gt=
;&gt; wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> &nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;I have a&nbsp; hydraulic clutch, Girling 5/8=E2=80=9D master and a=
 internal slave</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> &nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;that fits over the input shaft. Both are new.&nbsp; Problem is=
 I have a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> &nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;really good feeling petal, no leaks and good operation 90% of the</s=
pan><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;time=
 but occasionally when you depress the clutch to change gears</span><br></bl=
ockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the petal feels s=
oft and will not fully release the clutch. Letting</span><br></blockquote><b=
lockquote type=3D"cite"><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the petal out and again dep=
ressing it and the feel and release are</span><br></blockquote><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite"><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;again normal. Reservoir shows no lost o=
f fluid.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> &nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;Since the slave is mounted on the input shaft and operates directly</=
span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;on t=
he throw out bearing there is no linkage to cause the problem.</span><br></b=
lockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Any suggestions=
 as to what could be causing this problem?</span><br></blockquote><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite"><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Bob Nogueira</span><br></blockquote=
><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;________________________=
_______________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><sp=
an> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Shop-talk@autox.team.net &lt;mailto:Shop-talk@autox.te=
am.net&gt;</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> &nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html</span><br></blockquote><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite"><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Suggested annual donation&nbs=
p; $12.96</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> &nbsp;&nbs=
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>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite"><span>Shop-talk@autox.team.net</span><br></blockquote>=
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