--===============6219517946739947978==
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I agree, this certainly sounds like a problem with the reservoir shutoff
valve not closing properly.
If it were a problem with the main seals, a lot of fluif would have leaked
out.
I had the same problem develop in my Spitfire brake master cylinder. It
turned out that the
"tipping valve" (the shutoff valve for the forward half of the cylinder,
was not seating properly.
It was part of an aftermarket kit I had installed several years ago. I
re-installed the original one
(which I had kept), and the problem went away.
The lesson: In many cases a new part in an aftermarket rebuild kit can be
inferior to a used original
part.
Doug
On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 6:30 PM Robert Nogueirao via Shop-talk <
shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
> Pat thank, but having inspected the master it appears to be such a poorl=
y
> made copy of a Girling I see nothing but trouble in the future.the piston
> does not slide smoothly in the bore leading me to think it is hanging up.
> Same with the reservoir cut off .
> Again thanks.
>
> Bob Nogueira
>
> On Oct 11, 2019, at 11:15 PM, Pat Horne <patintexas@icloud.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BFYou should be able to find a set of seals to try. Lots cheaper t=
han a
> replacement master.
>
> In the past I found this kind of leak by having someone watching the flui=
d
> surface in the reservoir while I pressed the pedal down. On my master the=
re
> was a rise of the fluid where the jet of fluid came out of the reservoir =
to
> cylinder hole, causing a =E2=80=9Clump=E2=80=9D in the fluid surface, ind=
icating a bad
> seal.
>
> Peace,
> Pat
>
> Pat Horne
> We support Habitat for Humanity
>
>
> On Oct 11, 2019, at 10:46 PM, Robert Nogueirao via Shop-talk <
> shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BFOkay bleed the lines no solution, chance of air in the lines is =
remote,
> the slave is higher than the master, the run between them is only a foot =
or
> so and the line turns down for only a couple of inches between them.
> Additionally the bleederis at the highest point of the slave.
> The lines are new as is the slave and master.
> I did disassemble the master to check it out and it appears to be a
> Girling knockoff. The piston and reservoir shut off valve feel cheaply
> made. I=E2=80=99m thinking that the reservoir shutoff may be leaking a bi=
t until
> pressure is built up thus forcing fluid into the reservoir rather than to
> the slave. Only way to check is order a new Girling master from Pegasus,
> basically a $125 gamble.
> Right now Donald and Pat are in the problem solving playoffs.
> Will advise if the gamble pays off
> Thanks for the suggestions.
>
> Bob Nogueira
>
> B
>
> On Oct 9, 2019, at 7:18 PM, Donald H Locker via Shop-talk <
> shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BFIt would sound like air to me, too, but that it works "90% of th=
e time"
> which would indicate to me that one of the seals is not sealing properly.
>
> It's been a while, but I had a similar experience, and discovered that if
> I hit the pedal quick and hard, the clutch action was good; if not fast o=
r
> hard enough, the pedal was soft.
>
> My guess is that a seal is old and not always flaring out to the MC bore
> when the pedal is pressed.
>
> Donald.
> --
> *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
> () no proprietary attachments; no html mail
> /\ <http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml>
>
> On 2019-10-09 8:03 p.m., PJ McGarvey via Shop-talk wrote:
>
> Sounds indicative of air in the lines, since the first pump is weak/soft,
> but as you pump it a few more times you get more pressure. Check for loos=
e
> connections and then bleed a whole bottle of fluid.
>
> PJ
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Tom
> Shirley Sr. via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 9, 2019 7:46 PM
>
> *Cc:* Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Weird clutch petal
>
> Air in the lines?
>
> On Wed, Oct 9, 2019, 6:38 PM Robert Nogueirao via Shop-talk <
>
> I have a hydraulic clutch, Girling 5/8=E2=80=9D master and a internal=
slave
>
> that fits over the input shaft. Both are new. Problem is I have a
>
> really good feeling petal, no leaks and good operation 90% of the
>
> time but occasionally when you depress the clutch to change gears
>
> the petal feels soft and will not fully release the clutch. Letting
>
> the petal out and again depressing it and the feel and release are
>
> again normal. Reservoir shows no lost of fluid.
>
> Since the slave is mounted on the input shaft and operates directly
>
> on the throw out bearing there is no linkage to cause the problem.
>
> Any suggestions as to what could be causing this problem?
>
> Bob Nogueira
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
>
--000000000000ef23770594ccf10b
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I agree, this certainly sounds like a problem with th=
e reservoir shutoff valve not closing properly.</div><div>If it were a prob=
lem with the main seals, a lot of fluif would have leaked out.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>I had the same problem develop in my Spitfire brake master cyl=
inder.=C2=A0 It turned out that the <br></div><div>"tipping valve"=
; (the shutoff valve for the forward half of the cylinder, was not seating =
properly.</div><div>It was part of an aftermarket kit I had installed sever=
al years ago.=C2=A0 I re-installed the original one</div><div>(which I had =
kept), and the problem went away.</div><div><br></div><div>The lesson: In m=
any cases a new part in an aftermarket rebuild kit can be inferior to a use=
d original</div><div>part.</div><div><br></div><div>Doug</div><div><br></di=
v></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr=
">On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 6:30 PM Robert Nogueirao via Shop-talk <<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.net";>shop-talk@autox.team.net</a>> wrot=
e:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"a=
uto">Pat thank, =C2=A0but having inspected the master it appears to be such=
a poorly made copy of a Girling I see nothing but trouble in the future.th=
e piston does not slide smoothly in the bore leading me to think it is hang=
ing up. Same with the reservoir cut off .<div>Again thanks.<br><div><br><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">Bob Nogueira=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=
=3D"cite">On Oct 11, 2019, at 11:15 PM, Pat Horne <<a href=3D"mailto:pat=
intexas@icloud.com" target=3D"_blank">patintexas@icloud.com</a>> wrote:<=
br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=
=BFYou should be able to find a set of seals to try. Lots cheaper than a re=
placement master.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>In the past I found this kind of=
leak by having someone watching the fluid surface in the reservoir while I=
pressed the pedal down. On my master there was a rise of the fluid where t=
he jet of fluid came out of the reservoir to cylinder hole, causing a =E2=
=80=9Clump=E2=80=9D in the fluid surface, indicating a bad seal.=C2=A0</div=
><div><br></div><div>Peace,</div><div>Pat<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Pat Horne=
=C2=A0<div>We support Habitat for Humanity</div><div><br></div></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Oct 11, 2019, at 10:46 PM, Robe=
rt Nogueirao via Shop-talk <<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">shop-talk@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquo=
te></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<span>Okay bleed the lines no solution, =
chance of air in the lines is remote, the slave is higher than the master, =
the run between them is only a foot or so and the line turns down for only =
a couple of inches between them. Additionally=C2=A0<a dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"=
color:currentcolor;text-decoration-color:rgba(127,127,127,0.38)">the bleede=
r</a>is at the highest point of the slave. =C2=A0</span><br><span>The lines=
are new as is the slave and master. =C2=A0=C2=A0</span><br><span>I did dis=
assemble the master to check it out and it appears to be a Girling knockoff=
. The piston and reservoir shut off valve feel cheaply made. I=E2=80=99m th=
inking that the reservoir shutoff may be leaking a bit until pressure is bu=
ilt up thus forcing fluid into the reservoir rather than to the slave.=C2=
=A0 Only way to check is order a new Girling master from Pegasus, basically=
a $125 gamble.</span><br><span>Right now Donald and Pat are in the problem=
solving playoffs. =C2=A0=C2=A0</span><br><span>Will advise if the gamble p=
ays off</span><br><span>Thanks for the suggestions.=C2=A0</span><br><span><=
/span><br><span>Bob Nogueira=C2=A0</span><br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">B</div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Oct 9, 2019, at 7:18 PM, Do=
nald H Locker via Shop-talk <<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.net"=
target=3D"_blank">shop-talk@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockqu=
ote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<span>It woul=
d sound like air to me, too, but that it works "90% of the time" =
which would indicate to me that one of the seals is not sealing properly.</=
span><br><span></span><br><span>It's been a while, but I had a similar =
experience, and discovered that if I hit the pedal quick and hard, the clut=
ch action was good; if not fast or hard enough, the pedal was soft.</span><=
br><span></span><br><span>My guess is that a seal is old and not always fla=
ring out to the MC bore when the pedal is pressed.</span><br><span></span><=
br><span>Donald.</span><br><span>--</span><br><span>*Plain Text* email -- i=
t's an accessibility issue</span><br><span>() no proprietary attachment=
s; no html mail</span><br><span>/\ <<a href=3D"http://www.georgedillon.c=
om/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml" target=3D"_blank">http://www.georgedillon.=
com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml</a>></span><br><span></span><br><span>O=
n 2019-10-09 8:03 p.m., PJ McGarvey via Shop-talk wrote:</span><br><blockqu=
ote type=3D"cite"><span>Sounds indicative of air in the lines, since the fi=
rst pump is weak/soft, but as you pump it a few more times you get more pre=
ssure. Check for loose connections and then bleed a whole bottle of fluid.<=
/span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>PJ</span><br></block=
quote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>-------------------------------------=
-----------------------------------</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=
=3D"cite"><span>*From:* Shop-talk <<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk-bounces@a=
utox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> o=
n behalf of Tom Shirley Sr. via Shop-talk <<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk@a=
utox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">shop-talk@autox.team.net</a>></span><br=
></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>*Sent:* Wednesday, October 9,=
2019 7:46 PM</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>*Cc:* =
Shop-talk <<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank"=
>shop-talk@autox.team.net</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=
=3D"cite"><span>*Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Weird clutch petal</span><br></b=
lockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>Air in the lines?</span><br></blo=
ckquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>On Wed, Oct 9, 2019, 6:38 PM Robert=
Nogueirao via Shop-talk <<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.net"; ta=
rget=3D"_blank">shop-talk@autox.team.net</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:s=
hop-talk@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">shop-talk@autox.team.net</a>>=
> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0I have a=C2=A0 hydraulic clutch, Girling 5/8=E2=80=9D master an=
d a internal slave</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0that fits over the input shaft. Both are new.=C2=A0 Probl=
em is I have a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0really good feeling petal, no leaks and good operation 90% o=
f the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0time but occasionally when you depress the clutch to change gears</sp=
an><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the =
petal feels soft and will not fully release the clutch. Letting</span><br><=
/blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the petal ou=
t and again depressing it and the feel and release are</span><br></blockquo=
te><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0again normal. Reservo=
ir shows no lost of fluid.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
><span> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Since the slave is mounted on the input shaft and=
operates directly</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0on the throw out bearing there is no linkage to cause the=
problem.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0Any suggestions as to what could be causing this problem?</span><b=
r></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Bob Nogue=
ira</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><=
blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:Shop-ta=
lk@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@autox.team.net</a> <mailt=
o:<a href=3D"mailto:Shop-talk@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@a=
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