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Re: 5 Speed Prices

To: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>, Kroyell@aol.com
Subject: Re: 5 Speed Prices
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:15:30 -0800 (PST)
Cc: spridgets@autox.team.net, pasgeirsson@juno.com, Rivergate@compuserve.com
Hell of a description Jeff! :o)

Dan

--- Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu> wrote:
> York,
> 
> I just purchased a 5 speed conversion kit for my
> Sprite. There are 
> two kits that I'm aware of being sold in the States,
> one from 
> Morriservice (Paul Asgeirsson)
> <mailto:pasgeirsson@juno.com> and one 
> from Rivergate (Bill Perry)
> <http://www.rivergate5speed.com>. Both 
> use the Datsun 210 (not B-210) transmission. There
> is another kit 
> sold by Frontline
> <http://www.british-cars.org.uk/kimber/frontline/> 
> in England that uses a Ford gearbox. It may require
> cutting of the 
> frame and tunnel panels and of course rewelding of
> same. I don't know 
> much about it. It also costs about $1500, but
> includes everything 
> (kit plus tranny).
> 
> The two Datsun kits don't require changing much if
> anything in the 
> Spridget. Both kits work and cost about the same at
> the end of the 
> day, though there are many options for both and so
> pricing will vary 
> according to your needs. The people behind both kits
> are extremely 
> well-respected and have worked with British cars for
> a long time. 
> Paul frequently contributes to the spridgets list.
> 
> I don't think that the 210 transmissions are scarce.
> I found 6 in the 
> Atlanta metro area after making just 3 phone calls.
> I pulled one from 
> the junkyard three weeks ago for $50. Additionally,
> they are sold by 
> several people online (try spridget list member
> David "Crash" Ramsey 
> <dwramsey@worldnet.att.net>) and both kit
> manufacturers will sell you 
> one. Finally, I am replacing the pivot bushings and
> the rubber boots 
> on mine. The local Nissan dealership had bushings
> and one boot on the 
> shelf. The second boot arrived the next morning from
> a cross town 
> dealership. The point is that parts are still
> available.
> 
> Here is a brief listing of differences between the
> two Datsun 
> conversions in my opinion. I am open to discussion
> of possible 
> inaccuracies.
> 
> Clutch: Bill uses the BMC pressure plate and a
> Toyota clutch, 
> preventing the need for machining of the BMC
> flywheel to accept the 
> Datsun clutch. Paul is all BMC in front of the
> adaptor engine plate 
> and all Datsun behind the plate. This requires that
> you mail your 
> flywheel to Paul for resurfacing to accept the
> Datsun clutch. This is 
> by far the biggest discussion point between the two
> kits. Many people 
> using Bill's kit have had no clutch problems. At
> least one person 
> using Bill's kit with a 948 engine and 1098 pressure
> plate had all 
> kinds of clutch problems resulting in rapid wear and
> ended up going 
> with a Datsun clutch after having his local machine
> shop resurface 
> and balance his flywheel. Some people with Bill's
> kit complain about 
> the clutch being very snappish. I have driven one
> such conversion 
> where the total functional clutch travel was about
> the first one inch 
> off the firewall. This is more of a problem with
> pre-'68 cars that 
> had the dual bore master cylinder. Bill now sells a
> special CNC slave 
> cylinder set up that supposedly fixes all clutch
> feel problems. I 
> have one, but it's so new that I may be the first
> customer using it. 
> Paul says that clutch feel is different but not bad
> with his kit.
> 
> Starter location: Bill keeps the starter in the same
> (BMC) location. 
> This necessitates a large cut in the side of the
> Datsun transmission 
> housing so that the BMC starter Bendix has
> clearance. Nobody using 
> Bill's kit has had any problem with this AFAIK. Bill
> also sells a 
> very nice fiberglass cover to go over the hole to
> keep dirt out. 
> OTOH, Paul moves the starter down so that the bendix
> is in the bulge 
> that the Datsun starter occupied when in the 210.
> There is still some 
> relieving needed, but not as much. I think that this
> difference is a 
> wash with one intriguing exception: You can use a
> gear reduction 
> starter that does not have a bendix shaft. On Bill's
> kit, there still 
> will need to be some clearance cutting, but not
> nearly as much. On 
> Paul's kit, potentially there will be no need at all
> for cutting. My 
> only concern is whether there is enough clearance
> between the body 
> panel and frame rail because Paul places the starter
> lower than Bill. 
> It may be a solution to a problem that does not
> exist. GR starters 
> can be expensive ($225 to $300) for the nice racer
> ones. However, the 
> starter from a post '89 Isuzu Trooper V6 ($75) is a
> straight 
> trade-out for the BMC unit. I've also heard that the
> Isuzu P'UP 
> starter will work. Body clearance for either is a
> concern, but if you 
> pursue this, please let me know as I'm interested.
> 
> Rear crank seal: Bill sells a true rear seal that
> looks like it will 
> work better than the BMC solution and the rear seal
> kit sold by Mini 
> Mania. I have one and it's a slick set up. However,
> it is so new that 
> I have not heard of any testimonials other than from
> Bill, who has it 
> in a couple of cars. Paul sells a seal solution
> also, but it's not a 
> true seal AFAIK. Bill will modify Paul's adaptor
> plate to accept 
> Bill's seal.
> 
> Gear shift lever: For either kit, you must use the
> bottom part of the 
> Datsun lever. Bill will cut the Datsun lever and
> machine it so that 
> you can use the BMC shifter knob. Paul cuts the top
> off the Datsun 
> lever and the bottom off the BMC lever, then he
> welds the Datsun 
> bottom to the side of the BMC top. This allows use
> of the original 
> BMC shifter housing. Bill's solution requires that
> you use a shifter 
> boot (rubber, vinyl, leather, etc) depending on your
> individual car.
> 
> Usage and anecdotes: I know of 5 or 6 people on the
> spridgets email 
> list that use Bill's kit. There are at least 3 in
> the Atlanta metro 
> area. They are all reasonably to extremely happy
> with it. I don't 
> know anyone using Paul's kit, but I know that
> several are out there. 
> I have never heard anyone or even heard of anyone
> saying anything bad 
> about either guy. Both answered all of my questions
> in detail and 
> bent over backwards to help me understand exactly
> what their kits do 
> and do not do. Both have decades of experience with
> these cars.
> 
> My decision: I bought Bill's kit, but not for a
> sound reason really. 
> The machine shop that my rebuilder uses is cranky
> and persnickety. 
> They had already begun balancing my engine when I
> determined that IF 
> I was going to use Paul's kit, I would need to send
> the flywheel to 
> him. The rebuilder basically wasn't happy with this
> because he did 
> not want to 'mess with the machinist' and also he
> was concerned about 
> the timing - the racing season was upon us and my
> little street job 
> was rapidly moving down the totem pole! Given that I
> usually can't 
> make up my mind about anything, I guess this all
> worked out for the 
> best.
> 
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