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Yes, that=E2=80=99s the idea. You want all the lights on (including turn s=
ignals) during this test.
What you=E2=80=99re looking at is how much voltage drop there is through th=
e ground path.
-- Randall
From: Roger Elliott
Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2019 1:26 PM
To: triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [TR] TR250 LED tail light problem
HI Randall,
Thanks for the information and the tests.
I just want to check something on the tests since my electrical trouble sho=
oting ability is very limited.
This section is also done with the lights on, right?:=C2=A0=20
To check for grounding issues, I suggest running a wire to the negative bat=
tery terminal or negative starter cable, so you can connect the ground lead=
of your DMM to that.=C2=A0 Then you can probe at the rear lights, to see h=
ow well they are actually grounded.=C2=A0 0.2 volt is probably acceptable, =
anything more than that represents a problem that could be fixed.
=C2=A0
Thanks,
Roger
On 11/2/19 4:07 PM, Randall wrote:
There may not be a good solution, Roger.=C2=A0 The incandescent turn signal=
s draw a fair amount of current, which is likely more than the stock altern=
ator can deliver (along with tail lights and so on) at idle.=C2=A0 So it ma=
y be that the battery voltage is dropping from 13+ volts (alternator supply=
ing all power to car) to=C2=A0 12.6 volts (battery supplying some of the po=
wer) and the LEDs you=E2=80=99re using are sensitive enough to show the dif=
ference in voltage.
=C2=A0
To check, connect a good voltmeter or DMM to the battery, then watch what i=
t does when the tail lights and flashers are both on.=C2=A0 If I=E2=80=99m =
right, you=E2=80=99ll see the battery voltage sag in time with the turn sig=
nals.=C2=A0 The only fix would be to convert to a more modern alternator, t=
hat can keep up with the lights at idle.=C2=A0 (I=E2=80=99m not certain, bu=
t I think there is a Lester unit that would look and fit the same as the st=
ock Lucas but give more current across the board.=C2=A0 Check with the Jagu=
ar folks.)
=C2=A0
Another fix might be LEDs that use an active current source (so are much le=
ss sensitive to supply voltage), but I have no idea where to buy such thing=
s.=C2=A0 I made my own using a simple 2-transistor active current limiter.
=C2=A0
To check for grounding issues, I suggest running a wire to the negative bat=
tery terminal or negative starter cable, so you can connect the ground lead=
of your DMM to that.=C2=A0 Then you can probe at the rear lights, to see h=
ow well they are actually grounded.=C2=A0 0.2 volt is probably acceptable, =
anything more than that represents a problem that could be fixed.
=C2=A0
I=E2=80=99m not sure how the TR250 tail lights are wired.=C2=A0 On my TR3, =
all the rear lamps ground only through their mounting screws, which go into=
clip nuts fastened to the sheet metal.=C2=A0 Very insecure, especially if =
the sheet metal has a fresh coat of paint.=C2=A0=20
=C2=A0
However, each lamp has a terminal inside the housing for a ground wire.=C2=
=A0 So, I made up a ground wire that daisy-chains across all the rear lamp =
holders, then leads around the trunk to one of the fuel tank mounting bolts=
.
=C2=A0
-- Randall
=C2=A0
From: Roger Elliott
Sent: Friday, November 1, 2019 12:50 PM
To: triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject: [TR] TR250 LED tail light problem
=C2=A0
Here's the problem.=C2=A0 When the tail lights are on and I use the flasher=
,=20
the tail/brake lights flicker with the flasher.=C2=A0 They don't go on and=
=20
off but the get brighter and dimmer.=C2=A0 When the third brake light is=20
hooked up it does the same thing.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
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--></style></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3D"#954F72"><div cla=
ss=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes, that=E2=80=99s the idea.=C2=A0 =
You want all the lights on (including turn signals) during this test.</p><p=
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>What you=E2=80=
=99re looking at is how much voltage drop there is through the ground path.=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>-- Randa=
ll<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style=3D'ms=
o-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;paddin=
g:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'border:none;padding:0in'=
><b>From: </b><a href=3D"mailto:elliottr@rmi.net";>Roger Elliott</a><br><b>S=
ent: </b>Sunday, November 3, 2019 1:26 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:t=
riumphs@autox.team.net">triumphs@autox.team.net</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: =
[TR] TR250 LED tail light problem</p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> =
</o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>HI Randall,</span></p><p><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Thanks for the information and the tests.</spa=
n></p><p><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I just want to check something on=
the tests since my electrical trouble shooting ability is very limited.</s=
pan></p><p><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>This section is also done with =
the lights on, right?: </span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-m=
argin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>To check for grounding issue=
s, I suggest running a wire to the negative battery terminal or negative st=
arter cable, so you can connect the ground lead of your DMM to that. =
Then you can probe at the rear lights, to see how well they are actually gr=
ounded. 0.2 volt is probably acceptable, anything more than that repr=
esents a problem that could be fixed.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal st=
yle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <br>Thanks=
,<br>Roger<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:a=
uto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal>On 11/2/19 4:07 PM, Randall wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote styl=
e=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>There may n=
ot be a good solution, Roger. The incandescent turn signals draw a fa=
ir amount of current, which is likely more than the stock alternator can de=
liver (along with tail lights and so on) at idle. So it may be that t=
he battery voltage is dropping from 13+ volts (alternator supplying all pow=
er to car) to 12.6 volts (battery supplying some of the power) and th=
e LEDs you=E2=80=99re using are sensitive enough to show the difference in =
voltage.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal>To check, connect a good voltmeter or DMM to the battery, then=
watch what it does when the tail lights and flashers are both on. If=
I=E2=80=99m right, you=E2=80=99ll see the battery voltage sag in time with=
the turn signals. The only fix would be to convert to a more modern =
alternator, that can keep up with the lights at idle. (I=E2=80=99m no=
t certain, but I think there is a Lester unit that would look and fit the s=
ame as the stock Lucas but give more current across the board. Check =
with the Jaguar folks.)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Another fix might be LEDs that use an active curr=
ent source (so are much less sensitive to supply voltage), but I have no id=
ea where to buy such things. I made my own using a simple 2-transisto=
r active current limiter.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>To check for grounding issues, I suggest runnin=
g a wire to the negative battery terminal or negative starter cable, so you=
can connect the ground lead of your DMM to that. Then you can probe =
at the rear lights, to see how well they are actually grounded. 0.2 v=
olt is probably acceptable, anything more than that represents a problem th=
at could be fixed.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal>I=E2=80=99m not sure how the TR250 tail lights are wir=
ed. On my TR3, all the rear lamps ground only through their mounting =
screws, which go into clip nuts fastened to the sheet metal. Very ins=
ecure, especially if the sheet metal has a fresh coat of paint. <o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ho=
wever, each lamp has a terminal inside the housing for a ground wire. =
So, I made up a ground wire that daisy-chains across all the rear lamp hol=
ders, then leads around the trunk to one of the fuel tank mounting bolts.<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
>-- Randall<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div st=
yle=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in=
'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From: </b><a href=3D"mailto:elliottr@rmi.net";>Rog=
er Elliott</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Friday, November 1, 2019 12:50 PM<br><b>To: =
</b><a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>triumphs@autox.team.net</a><=
br><b>Subject: </b>[TR] TR250 LED tail light problem<o:p></o:p></p></div><p=
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Here's the pro=
blem. When the tail lights are on and I use the flasher, <o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal>the tail/brake lights flicker with the flasher.&nbs=
p; They don't go on and <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>off but the get=
brighter and dimmer. When the third brake light is <o:p></o:p></p><p=
class=3DMsoNormal>hooked up it does the same thing.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-lef=
t:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></di=
v></body></html>=
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