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Re: [TR] Earls Court TR5 (CP20LO) now in USA?

To: "John.Macartney@Ukpips.org.uk" <John.Macartney@Ukpips.org.uk>, "grglmn@gmail.com" <grglmn@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TR] Earls Court TR5 (CP20LO) now in USA?
From: ptegler@verizon.net
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2021 17:44:57 +0000 (UTC)
Cc: "triumphs@autox.team.net" <triumphs@autox.team.net>
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: triumphs@autox.team.net
References: <14DEDF84-7121-4112-BB70-C6B6B89A511D@gmail.com> <CAPK7CFC5SfVpQFbDGmbv9C-c48z7vUiLVWX7XeOvTDrBXgCmwQ@mail.gmail.com> <641214F0-C01D-49FA-AC29-82C73F39CDFB@linneyweb.com> <CAFtw3aZJkBGdSY2Zt1X67Lct56s2SgRKqNJ4gfpZvJvFejmh0g@mail.gmail.com> <A42515CF-6D47-49DA-928F-F9A1EA1CE92D@Ukpips.org.uk> <B9E460CC-181B-4E3D-A145-7F877A79AD4C@Ukpips.org.uk> x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/89.0.4389.72 Safari/537.36
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I have little to no faith in Heritgage Certs.... had an aquiantance recieve=
 a cert with invalid info.
As a test he submitted a flat out bogus number an they gave him a cert for =
it!rubbish.Now perhaps they had/have vaild records at one time, or for a pa=
rticular series of vehicles...but twice now on two different lineages of ca=
rs, the info printed on the cert was just crap thrown on paper for the $$
ptegler


-----Original Message-----
From: John Macartney <John.Macartney@Ukpips.org.uk>
To: Greg Lemon <grglmn@gmail.com>
Cc: Triumphs <triumphs@autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2021 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Earls Court TR5 (CP20LO) now in USA?

I=E2=80=99ve just had a look at the Heritage Certificate for the above car.=
 From the info on the certificate, it=E2=80=99s clear it was built for a na=
med customer in Denmark and supplied under Standard Triumphs Personal Expor=
t Scheme which I worked within for several years. Cars built for display at=
 any international motor show were identified very clearly on the build rec=
ord and sales invoice as =E2=80=98motor show car=E2=80=99 and this would ha=
ve been picked up by BMIHT staff when interrogating the microfilmed records=
. It=E2=80=99s also worth mentioning the company would never have used a cu=
stomer car for exhibition display at any show such as those which were as p=
restigious as London, Paris, Frankfurt, Geneva or New York. A show car? Not=
 in my book, though the person whose name appears on the BMIHT document mig=
ht have been in England FOR the show but his car on the main or Liverpool s=
tands AT the show? No way - unless someone can come up with documentation t=
o prove me wrong. I wouldn=E2=80=99t touch it with that claimed or alleged =
history but no doubt someone with more money than sense will swallow the ba=
it and pay way over the odds for a TR5 that could well be a clone. Too ofte=
n in life, things are not always what they seem and in my view this car fit=
s that category.
Jonmac=C2=A0


Vote for Guy Fawkes! The only man who entered Parliament with honest intent=
ions.
On 8 Mar 2021, at 22:06, John Macartney <John.Macartney@ukpips.org.uk> wrot=
e:



What many people fail to realise is that motor show cars are very different=
 in many ways to the normal production version. For a start, the paint fini=
sh received detailed attention and were often resprayed several times to gi=
ve the paint a =E2=80=98deeper=E2=80=99 appearance. Engine blocks were a sh=
iny black, as were hoses. Body and door shut lines underwent considerable w=
ork and door shuts themselves were silky smooth in operation and quiet to o=
perate. This was always difficult to achieve on the Herald, GT6 and Spitfir=
e as closing most doors on those models mostly sounded like putting the lid=
 on an empty trash can. Every night after show closure, the carpets, seats =
and door cards in all cars were exchanged for new ones and any faults or pr=
oblems reported to the Stand Manager during the day were rectified. Knobs, =
switches, lenses that had been stolen or damaged through clumsy removal wer=
e also replaced. Leaking or non functional hydraulics were replaced as well=
 and there=E2=80=99s a moral here. NEVER buy a car that has done a stint as=
 a display vehicle at a ten day motor show. It will have gone through hell =
in that time and Engineering always studied reports of how the cars had hel=
d up during the show. Theft, attempted or actual was by no means unknown an=
d one day a man wearing a pair of white overalls was actually caught trying=
 to remove a Herald differential!!! It happened on a Saturday when you coul=
d hardly move on the stand because of the crowds. Car =E2=80=98ride heights=
=E2=80=99 were often raised a little to allow for the daily punishment of p=
eople of various weights collapsing into cars on a crowded stand. This did =
little to give seats a gentle life! Mostly, this was achieved by temporaril=
y fitting all cars with heavy duty tropical suspension for the show duratio=
n. Doing this meant there was nothing like the amount of =E2=80=9Cgive=E2=
=80=9D found in a car that was conventionally sprung.
Was the motor show experience enjoyable? If you like standing on your feet =
from 09.00 to 22.00 without somewhere to sit down, for ten days solid in an=
 unhealthy atmosphere that gave everyone flu and talking to people who most=
ly bored you witless and were often less than polite, eating the same outsi=
de catered lunch and no chance of a quick beer, I suppose it might have bee=
n. The truth was, it wasn=E2=80=99t. We all had to wear dark, tailored thre=
e piece suits (bought at our cost), starched cotton shirts with turned back=
 cuffs and a detachable stiff shirt collar and sober tie. Shoes had to be p=
olished like a guardsmans boots, clean finger nails, immaculately clean and=
 parted hair and heaven help you after a day attired like that if the Stand=
 Manager detected even a tiny whiff of halitosis or sweat. Yes, I will admi=
t we, Standard Triumph=E2=80=99s public face, looked good and perhaps we ha=
d a little virtuous pride in ourselves - but to this day, I=E2=80=99ve yet =
to meet any car company employee or salesman who knew as much about his/her=
 product AND the same level of detail of every other make and model of car =
that competed with us. To this day and well over fifty years later, I=E2=80=
=99m still amazed how much I can still recall.
Jonmac

Vote for Guy Fawkes! The only man who entered Parliament with honest intent=
ions.
On 8 Mar 2021, at 19:07, Greg Lemon <grglmn@gmail.com> wrote:


I don't believe the suspension was raised.=C2=A0 Might appear taller as TR5=
 tires were skinnier 165, vs. 250 on wider 185/70, or just new springs ridi=
ng a little high.
Greg LemonTR250
On Mon, Mar 8, 2021, 12:29 PM John Linney <john@linneyweb.com> wrote:

Lovely car. Did they raise the ride height from the TR4 / 4A? It looks a li=
ttle high.


On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Don Hiscock <don.hiscock@gmail.com> wrote:
Friends in NL have reported that a superbly-restored TR5, the original LHD =
car from the 1967 Earls Court Motor Show premiere, has been sold to the USA=
 and is now in the midwest.
Anybody know the car?=C2=A0 It's said to be a pretty special TR, and I'd pr=
obably agree.=C2=A0 My first car in life was a TR250, unrestorable given my=
 budget, skills, and marque support at the time.=C2=A0 But today -- I wish =
I still had it!
Here=E2=80=99s the sales ad:
https://www.jbclassiccars.com/?portfolio=3Dtriumph-tr5

Note the comments about the car's original Swiss-specifications and the stu=
ff around engines.=C2=A0 Jonmac, this makes us smile to think about your ef=
forts in this area back in the day.** triumphs@autox.team.net **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs =C2=A0http://www.team.net/a=
rchive

neyweb.com


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mail.com



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artney@ukpips.org.uk

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verizon.net

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<div style=3D"color:black;font: 10pt arial;">I have little to no faith in H=
eritgage Certs.... had an aquiantance recieve a cert with invalid info.<br>
As a test he submitted a flat out bogus number an they gave him a cert for =
it!
<div>rubbish.</div>

<div>Now perhaps they had/have vaild records at one time, or for a particul=
ar series of vehicles...but twice now on two different lineages of cars, th=
e info printed on the cert was just crap thrown on paper for the $$</div>

<div><br>
</div>

<div>ptegler<br>
<br>
<br>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><font=
 size=3D"2">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: John Macartney &lt;John.Macartney@Ukpips.org.uk&gt;<br>
To: Greg Lemon &lt;grglmn@gmail.com&gt;<br>
Cc: Triumphs &lt;triumphs@autox.team.net&gt;<br>
Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2021 1:33 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] Earls Court TR5 (CP20LO) now in USA?<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"yiv5493107758">
<div>I=E2=80=99ve just had a look at the Heritage Certificate for the above=
 car. From the info on the certificate, it=E2=80=99s clear it was built for=
 a named customer in Denmark and supplied under Standard Triumphs Personal =
Export Scheme which I worked within for several years. Cars built for displ=
ay at any international motor show were identified very clearly on the buil=
d record and sales invoice as =E2=80=98motor show car=E2=80=99 and this wou=
ld have been picked up by BMIHT staff when interrogating the microfilmed re=
cords. It=E2=80=99s also worth mentioning the company would never have used=
 a customer car for exhibition display at any show such as those which were=
 as prestigious as London, Paris, Frankfurt, Geneva or New York. A show car=
? Not in my book, though the person whose name appears on the BMIHT documen=
t might have been in England FOR the show but his car on the main or Liverp=
ool stands AT the show? No way - unless someone can come up with documentat=
ion to prove me wrong. I wouldn=E2=80=99t touch it with that claimed or all=
eged history but no doubt someone with more money than sense will swallow t=
he bait and pay way over the odds for a TR5 that could well be a clone. Too=
 often in life, things are not always what they seem and in my view this ca=
r fits that category.
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>Jonmac&nbsp;
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div><br clear=3D"none">
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv5493107758AppleMailSignature">Vote for Guy Fawkes=
! The only man who entered Parliament with honest intentions.</div>

<div class=3D"yiv5493107758yqt8139465760" id=3D"yiv5493107758yqt21841">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">On 8 Mar 2021, at 22:06, John Macartney=
 &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mail=
to:John.Macartney@ukpips.org.uk" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:John.Maca=
rtney@ukpips.org.uk">John.Macartney@ukpips.org.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=
=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr"></div>
</blockquote></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

<div class=3D"yiv5493107758yqt8139465760" id=3D"yiv5493107758yqt36074">
<div>What many people fail to realise is that motor show cars are very diff=
erent in many ways to the normal production version. For a start, the paint=
 finish received detailed attention and were often resprayed several times =
to give the paint a =E2=80=98deeper=E2=80=99 appearance. Engine blocks were=
 a shiny black, as were hoses. Body and door shut lines underwent considera=
ble work and door shuts themselves were silky smooth in operation and quiet=
 to operate. This was always difficult to achieve on the Herald, GT6 and Sp=
itfire as closing most doors on those models mostly sounded like putting th=
e lid on an empty trash can. Every night after show closure, the carpets, s=
eats and door cards in all cars were exchanged for new ones and any faults =
or problems reported to the Stand Manager during the day were rectified. Kn=
obs, switches, lenses that had been stolen or damaged through clumsy remova=
l were also replaced. Leaking or non functional hydraulics were replaced as=
 well and there=E2=80=99s a moral here. NEVER buy a car that has done a sti=
nt as a display vehicle at a ten day motor show. It will have gone through =
hell in that time and Engineering always studied reports of how the cars ha=
d held up during the show. Theft, attempted or actual was by no means unkno=
wn and one day a man wearing a pair of white overalls was actually caught t=
rying to remove a Herald differential!!! It happened on a Saturday when you=
 could hardly move on the stand because of the crowds. Car =E2=80=98ride he=
ights=E2=80=99 were often raised a little to allow for the daily punishment=
 of people of various weights collapsing into cars on a crowded stand. This=
 did little to give seats a gentle life! Mostly, this was achieved by tempo=
rarily fitting all cars with heavy duty tropical suspension for the show du=
ration. Doing this meant there was nothing like the amount of =E2=80=9Cgive=
=E2=80=9D found in a car that was conventionally sprung.
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>Was the motor show experience enjoyable? If you like standing on your =
feet from 09.00 to 22.00 without somewhere to sit down, for ten days solid =
in an unhealthy atmosphere that gave everyone flu and talking to people who=
 mostly bored you witless and were often less than polite, eating the same =
outside catered lunch and no chance of a quick beer, I suppose it might hav=
e been. The truth was, it wasn=E2=80=99t. We all had to wear dark, tailored=
 three piece suits (bought at our cost), starched cotton shirts with turned=
 back cuffs and a detachable stiff shirt collar and sober tie. Shoes had to=
 be polished like a guardsmans boots, clean finger nails, immaculately clea=
n and parted hair and heaven help you after a day attired like that if the =
Stand Manager detected even a tiny whiff of halitosis or sweat. Yes, I will=
 admit we, Standard Triumph=E2=80=99s public face, looked good and perhaps =
we had a little virtuous pride in ourselves - but to this day, I=E2=80=99ve=
 yet to meet any car company employee or salesman who knew as much about hi=
s/her product AND the same level of detail of every other make and model of=
 car that competed with us. To this day and well over fifty years later, I=
=E2=80=99m still amazed how much I can still recall.</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>Jonmac<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv5493107758AppleMailSignature">Vote for Guy Fawkes=
! The only man who entered Parliament with honest intentions.</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">On 8 Mar 2021, at 19:07, Greg Lemon &lt=
;<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:g=
rglmn@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:grglmn@gmail.com";>grglmn@=
gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>I don't believe the suspension was raised.&nbsp; Might appear taller a=
s TR5 tires were skinnier 165, vs. 250 on wider 185/70, or just new springs=
 riding a little high.
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>Greg Lemon</div>

<div>TR250</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"yiv5493107758gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"yiv5493107758gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, Mar 8, 2021, 12:=
29 PM John Linney &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect=
" ymailto=3D"mailto:john@linneyweb.com"; target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:jo=
hn@linneyweb.com">john@linneyweb.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></div=
>
<blockquote class=3D"yiv5493107758gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;b=
order-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;">Lovely car. Did they raise the ride he=
ight from the TR4 / 4A? It looks a little high.<br clear=3D"none">
<div><br clear=3D"none"><blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Don Hiscock &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow noopene=
r noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:don.hiscock@gmail.com"; targe=
t=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:don.hiscock@gmail.com";>don.hiscock@gmail.com</a=
>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"yiv5493107758gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"yiv5493107758gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">Friends in NL have repor=
ted that a superbly-restored TR5, the original LHD car from the 1967 Earls =
Court Motor Show premiere, has been sold to the USA and is now in the midwe=
st.</div>

<div class=3D"yiv5493107758gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div=
>

<div class=3D"yiv5493107758gmail_attr">Anybody know the car?&nbsp; It's sai=
d to be a pretty special TR, and I'd probably agree.&nbsp; My first car in =
life was a TR250, unrestorable given my budget, skills, and marque support =
at the time.&nbsp; But today -- I wish I still had it!</div>
<br clear=3D"none">Here=E2=80=99s the sales ad:<br clear=3D"none">
<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" hr=
ef=3D"https://www.jbclassiccars.com/?portfolio=3Dtriumph-tr5";>https://www.j=
bclassiccars.com/?portfolio=3Dtriumph-tr5</a><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div class=3D"yiv5493107758gmail_quote"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div class=3D"yiv5493107758gmail_quote">Note the comments about the car's o=
riginal Swiss-specifications and the stuff around engines.&nbsp; Jonmac, th=
is makes us smile to think about your efforts in this area back in the day.=
</div>
</div>

** <a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto=
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** triumphs@autox.team.net **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive


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