[Fot] Peugeot lifters 504

[Greg Solow]

In regard to TR-3 & 4 lifters and cams. It is true that the original cam lobes were flat and not taperred. I do not believe that the original lifters were flat.  I had purchased OE> lifters from the TR dealer, Kramer Motors in Santa Monica back in 1966 when I put my first Kastner "D" cam in my Morgan. I am quite certian that the new lifters that I bought had a "crown" to their base.  
      We have found over the years, almost every single wet sleeve engine which we torn down had at least 2, sometimes 3 lifters that were not rotating. Usually these lifters were near the rear of the block. The wear pattern they wouldl develop looked like a butterfly on the bottom of the lifter.  They had been occilating, not rotating!
      We did some research with the cam grinder that we have been working with for over 35 years now, and have concluded that if the cam lobes are reground with a taper, & the lifters are ground with a matching taper, then the lifters will rotate reliably and cam and lifter life will be dramatically exteneded. This of course assumes that the lifters are at least Rc 55 or so as were the originals.   
      Thecam lobes are tapered in pairs, each pair tapered toward each other so as to match the offset of the lifter bores from the cam lobes. 
This requires grinding the cam lobes in two different set ups with the grinding wheel of the cam grinder set to taper 4 lobes in one direction and 4 lobes in the other direction. Thus the thrust developed by the cam/lifter offset is equel and the only fore and aft load on the cam is from the oil pump drive gear. . 
       All of the cams that we have had reground in the last 30 years have all had tapered lobes. 

                                                                                           Greg Solow
                                                                                            The Engine Room

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jerry Van Vlack via Fot 
  To: Mike Harmuth ; FoTTriumph 
  Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 4:49 AM
  Subject: Re: [Fot] Peugeot lifters 504


  The discussion on lifters is of interest to me. I’d like to see some independent  verification of the recent statement regarding lifter bore being at some angle relative to the cam bore. 

  What I believe is the bores are perpendicular to the cam bore but offset from lobe centerline to facilitate lifter rotation. I recently did some research on cams and lifters for the wet sleeve engines and have concluded that factory stock cams and lifters are ground flat and lifter bores are offset to facilitate lifter rotation. My bases for the conclusion is via verification at a cam grinder that the stock lobes (and my Kastner D cam) are ground flat by installing several OE cams between centers in the cam grinders equipment and sweeping a dial indicator across the lobes and the heals which verified dead flat grind. 

  With regard to lifters I took several used but known to be OE lifters that were in good shape and placed them end to end, there was no rocking and they mated as though they were lapped together. I did the same with new lifters from a well know supplier and placed them end to end and they rocked showing a slight radius. These radiused lifters combined with a flat cam are not matched for lifter rotation and can lead to rapid cam and lifter wear. If using a cam that has a taper ground lobe with the radiused lifters you will get rotation. 

  I have no idea what effect on wear an offset lifter bore has with a tapered lobe cam and radiused lifter. Maybe someone else can comment on that.

  Perhaps this is old news to many racers but I suspect that some engines have been built with mismatched cams and lifters that led to rapid cam and lifter wear which was wrongly blamed on oil and break-in procedures.

  JVV

  From: Mike Harmuth via Fot 
  Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 8:47 AM
  To: FoTTriumph 
  Subject: Re: [Fot] Peugot lifters 504

  "And they've been used in at least one 1296 Spitfire engine, where they're much larger in diameter than stock."


  Now you have my interest, I have a small block 1296 block with worn lifter bores and my engine builder couldn't find a slightly larger lifter. I'm guessing he didn't look at a Peugeot parts catalog. Does anyone have a lifter part number or a spec so I can investigate bringing this block back from the dead? It was mentioned that the TR bores holes are not parallel to the block, are the small journal 1296 bore the same?


  thanks

  mike h





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