[JONAT] SECTOR ROUTES
Dr Gregory Andrachuk
jonat@autox.team.net
Wed May 7 10:10:01 2003
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--Boundary_(ID_MJbKn3+KoeBKFgebcMdTJQ)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
We are not police, nor minders, nor baby-sitters, nor even tour guides in the snese of shepherding people from one spot to another, counting heads and so on. If this is what is expected of the SC's, I would like to know the limits of our responsibilities now. Some of us may not feel we can or should have such responsibilities.
Gregory
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Mouton
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [JONAT] SECTOR ROUTES
Subhead
"Family sues organizers for negligence"
After all, you'll be dealing with US Citizens ; -)
Jerry Mouton "Laissez les bons temps rouler!"
----- Original Message -----
From: Dr Gregory Andrachuk
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: [JONAT] SECTOR ROUTES
Jerry: you raise a very good point. Your concern about what to do with stragglers is, in fact, precisely the point: just how much baby-sitting do the SC's want to do?
I am getting the picture of a kindergarten class being herded across the street by their teacher. Surely as adults we can all arrange to get ourselves to point B for a dinner at a certain time, or, in fact, for any number of reasons, choose not to attend. And unless we have made some arrangements with others, we should be free to tarry, hurry, dally, or disappear.
Clearly, all participants should be provided with contact information if they really have a problem, but I don't think the SC's should have to be responsible for keeping track of the whereabouts of individuals. Most will want to travel with others, but there will always be some who want to strike out on their own and the SC's should not have to be waiting at "check points" (in fact, in our segment we haven't even talked about such a thing).
Gregory
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Mouton
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: [JONAT] SECTOR ROUTES
I will try to have a structured route and stop plan, but of course
folks can take a different way. My only worry is when
wanderers come up with car problems and can't reach us, for
some reason. We can leave it to them, but I hope we will have
some mechanical assistance and parts available with the structured
group. And, we may not be able to get to some wide wanderers
without leaving the rest of the group at loose ends, so they
will have to be self-reliant wanderers. I don't think we can
guarantee to be there for them.
If we choose a less-structured
option, I believe we have to clearly tell folks the limits of our responsibilities
to those who take it. What will those limits be? What do we do if
someone fails to show up at an official checkpoint? Structured folks
can be located easily -- the others? Do we hold up the tour until the
stragglers are located? Do we arrange a possee to go scare them up?
I hope I can introduce out of towners to some little-known routes
here, but they will want to come along with the crowd to see them all.
Those in the structured group will be priviledged to strike awe and
wonder into the appreciative inhabitants of Northern California as
a glorious group.
Perhaps there could be some alternative structured paths to choose?
Jerry
Jerry Mouton "Laissez les bons temps rouler!"
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 9:58 PM
Subject: RE: [JONAT] SECTOR ROUTES
Just so I fully understand where this is going, the thought is to have, for each Sector, only two "official"stops: one at the very start, and one at the very end. Between these two official stops, we have two options for the participants: the first would be a little more structured with recommended evening stops and perhaps recommended stops for eats; the second would be to meet with the structured part of the Tour where they wish, except making sure they are at the beginning and end of each Sector.
Am I understanding this correctly?
My comments : to be honest I saw the Tour as a little more towards the structured end. This new less structured option will have definitely some appeal to a number of people, giving them more freedom. Others will appreciate camaraderie and organization of the structured option. And still others will choose structure some days, and freedom others. The idea has got me thinking a little more "out of the box".
I'd definitely like to hear comments from all the SC's and the International Coordinators as well on this, particularly those that are regular multi-day tour goers. Anyone have experience with a two structure type of tour?
Bob England
'69 E-Type & '72 XJ6
Jaguar Owner's North American Tour (JONAT)
Route Coordinator
http://www.jonat.org
-----Original Message-----
Sent: May 6, 2003 9:00 PM
Jamie: excellent! much better! This gives everyone a more relaxed pace, but still maintains a structure.
Gregory
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 7:58 PM
In view of Gregory's request (& the fact that the routing for Oregon & Washington didn't come out exactly the way I was thinking), I'm going to re-run those two Sectors and I'm planning on more evenly distributing the time versus days. I am now thinking that setting a stopping point each night is a bit anal and ludicrous. If we have a main starting point and time at the beginning and a main stopping point or gathering location at the end of a Sector (agreed to by the following Sector for their starting point), this should do the trick. Along the way we can of course have a "suggested route" with suggested stops of interest listed. These stops could be a regular listing on the main web page for that particular Sector (perhaps with their own maps showing how/where from the "suggested routing" and at what point to "divert". Along with the original idea of suggested lodging, eateries, fuel stops, mechanical services and parts, all these can feed from that web page.
Comments?
Jamie Duffey - Everett, WA
--Boundary_(ID_MJbKn3+KoeBKFgebcMdTJQ)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2726.2500" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY style="COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman" bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We are not police, nor minders, nor baby-sitters,
nor even tour guides in the snese of shepherding people from one spot to
another, counting heads and so on. If this is what is expected of the SC's, I
would like to know the limits of our responsibilitie</FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2>s now. Some of us may not feel we can or should have such
responsibilities.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
Gregory</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jerry@moutons.org href="mailto:jerry@moutons.org">Jerry Mouton</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=jonat@autox.team.net
href="mailto:jonat@autox.team.net">jonat@autox.team.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:36
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [JONAT] SECTOR ROUTES</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subhead </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"Family sues organizers for
negligence"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>After all, you'll be dealing with US Citizens ;
-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Jerry
Mouton
"Laissez les bons temps rouler!"</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=v12-vdp@shaw.ca href="mailto:v12-vdp@shaw.ca">Dr Gregory
Andrachuk</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=jonat@autox.team.net
href="mailto:jonat@autox.team.net">jonat@autox.team.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 06, 2003 10:51
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [JONAT] SECTOR
ROUTES</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jerry: you raise a very good point. Your
concern about what to do with stragglers is, in fact, precisely the point:
just how much baby-sitting do the SC's want to do?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I am getting the
picture of a kindergarten class being herded across the street by their
teacher. Surely as adults we can all arrange to get ourselves to point B for
a dinner at a certain time, or, in fact, for any number of
reasons, choose not to attend. And unless we have made some
arrangements with others, we should be free to tarry, hurry, dally, or
disappear.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Clearly, all participants
should be provided with contact information if they really have a problem,
but I don't think the SC's should have to be responsible for keeping track
of the whereabouts of individuals. Most will want to travel with others, but
there will always be some who want to strike out on their own and the SC's
should not have to be waiting at "check points" (in fact, in our segment we
haven't even talked about such a thing).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
Gregory</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jerry@moutons.org href="mailto:jerry@moutons.org">Jerry
Mouton</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=jonat@autox.team.net
href="mailto:jonat@autox.team.net">jonat@autox.team.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 06, 2003 10:25
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [JONAT] SECTOR
ROUTES</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I will try to have a structured route and
stop plan, but of course </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>folks can take a different way. My only
worry is when</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>wanderers come up with car problems and can't
reach us, for</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>some reason. We can leave it to them,
but I hope we will have</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>some mechanical assistance and parts
available with the structured </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>group. And, we may not be able to get
to some wide wanderers</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>without leaving the rest of the group at
loose ends, so they</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>will have to be self-reliant wanderers.
I don't think we can </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>guarantee to be there for them.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If we choose a less-structured</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>option, I believe we have to clearly
tell folks the limits of our responsibilities </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>to those who take it. What will those
limits be? What do we do if</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>someone fails to show up at an official
checkpoint? Structured folks </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>can be located easily -- the others? Do
we hold up the tour until the </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>stragglers are located? Do we arrange a
possee to go scare them up?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I hope I can introduce out of towners to some
little-known routes </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>here, but they will want to come along with
the crowd to see them all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Those in the structured group will be
priviledged to strike awe and</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>wonder into the appreciative inhabitants of
Northern California as</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>a glorious group.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Perhaps there could be some alternative
structured paths to choose? </FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jerry</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Jerry
Mouton
"Laissez les bons temps rouler!"</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=engl@jonat.org href="mailto:engl@jonat.org">Bob</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=jonat@autox.team.net
href="mailto:jonat@autox.team.net">jonat@autox.team.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 06, 2003 9:58
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [JONAT] SECTOR
ROUTES</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=851324204-07052003><FONT size=2>Just so I fully
understand where this is going, the thought is to have, for each Sector,
only two "official"stops: one at the very start, and one at the very
end. Between these two official stops, we have two options for the
participants: the first would be a little more structured with
recommended evening stops and perhaps recommended stops for eats; the
second would be to meet with the structured part of the Tour where they
wish, except making sure they are at the beginning and end of each
Sector.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=851324204-07052003><FONT
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=851324204-07052003><FONT size=2>Am I understanding this
correctly? </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=851324204-07052003><FONT size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=851324204-07052003><FONT size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=851324204-07052003><FONT size=2>My comments : to be
honest I saw the Tour as a little more towards the structured end.
This new less structured option will have definitely some appeal to a
number of people, giving them more freedom. Others will
appreciate camaraderie and organization of the
structured option. And still others will choose
structure some days, and freedom others. The idea has got me
thinking a little more "out of the box".</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=851324204-07052003><FONT
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=851324204-07052003><FONT size=2>I'd definitely like to
hear comments from all the SC's and the International Coordinators as
well on this, particularly those that are regular multi-day tour
goers. Anyone have experience with a two structure type of
tour?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Bob England<BR>'69 E-Type & '72 XJ6<BR>Jaguar
Owner's North American Tour (JONAT)<BR>Route Coordinator<BR><A
href="http://www.jonat.org/">http://www.jonat.org</A></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>Sent:</B> May 6, 2003 9:00
PM<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jamie: excellent! much better! This gives
everyone a more relaxed pace, but still maintains a
structure.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
Gregory</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 06, 2003
7:58 PM</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT><FONT size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>In view of Gregory's request (& the
fact that the routing for Oregon & Washington didn't come out
exactly the way I was thinking), I'm going to re-run those two
Sectors and I'm planning on more evenly distributing the time versus
days. I am now thinking that setting a stopping point each
night is a bit anal and ludicrous. If we have a main starting
point and time at the beginning and a main stopping point or
gathering location at the end of a Sector (agreed to by the
following Sector for their starting point), this should do the
trick. Along the way we can of course have a "suggested route"
with suggested stops of interest listed. These stops could be
a regular listing on the main web page for that particular
Sector (perhaps with their own maps showing how/where from the
"suggested routing" and at what point to "divert". Along with
the original idea of suggested lodging, eateries, fuel stops,
mechanical services and parts, all these can feed from that web
page.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Comments?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Jamie Duffey - Everett,
WA</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
--Boundary_(ID_MJbKn3+KoeBKFgebcMdTJQ)--