[JONAT] Re: $45 tour fee...

Mon Feb 9 04:48:01 2004

OK, I've restricted my discussion on this matter to the EC so that a decided
position can be put to the participants and SCs but as the matter is now in
open discussion and the EC is just Bob and myself, Jamie being listed MIA
somewhere.

There are two options.

1) Just organise JONAT as we are doing now, everyone carry their own costs
and just publish the route and times and invite participants to come along.
No charge, pay your own expenses and just do as you like, individually.
Maybe it will work but I feel it will be a bloody shambles and have no
coherence or structure that can be built on to become a great road journey,
in the future. If there is no organisation there will be no interest from
any major sponsors and it will be a footnote in the Lower Shocknawe Gazette.

2) Charge an entry fee of $45 for which one gets a bag of stuff (eg, map of
the tour, 2 suitably monogrammed caps or a car-badge, letter of welcome,
basic ground rules, ID sticker for the car, etc.) delivered to your address.
No sector fees. Pay all other expenses as you go along. This balance of this
fee, after the 'glad bag' costs will pay for the web-site and the courier
fee to get the bags to every paid-up participant.

>From personal experience in over 20 years the largest Jag club in Australia
(700+ members), I know that (a) some people will bitch about paying $1 for
something and most will not and (b) if something is free, there's no
commitment or value attached to it.
Anyway, this whole question may be academic as I believe the lead-times to
design &  put together a decent car badge or cap and actually organise
anything remotely professional has passed. So, we might as well keep sending
each other emails and then just go for a free drive down the road when the
time comes.

Fazal Cader
Executive Committee, ISC - Australia
Jaguar Owner's North American Tour - www.jonat.org
April 15, 2004 - July 4, 2004

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Stephenson" <marks@jaguarot.com>
To: <jonat@autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 6:46 PM
Subject: RE: [JONAT] That pesky $45 tour fee...

> Bob,
>
> I think the argument that people determine value based on cost is true
> if you are selling something. I have a friend who made airplanes from
> left over stained glass. At $5 he hardly sold any. At $20 he sold a
> bunch. It's one of those rare exceptions to supply and demand. If we
> were arranging hotels and catering meals then the "you get what you pay
> for" dictum would apply. However, what we have here is a volunteer
> effort. We aren't really trying to "sell" anything -- we are just trying
> to cover costs. I think most people know that coming in.
>
> Well, as I said, if we have a set fee, there will be two groups
> participating in my Sector. There will be the JONAT group and the local
> club members. The local club members can become part of the JONAT group
> if they want the goodies, but if they just want to do the club thing
> they can participate that way.
>
> OK, you got me thinking and I've come up with a completely different
> idea.
>
> Does $0 work? Not if we have costs associated with things to get this up
> and running. Out of pocket expenses shouldn't be borne by the
> volunteers, if at all possible. By the same token, we shouldn't put
> together a bag of goodies that raise the cost, if people don't really
> want them.
>
> As you well know, I'm in the KISS school with a few other SCs. I think
> we should forego most, if not all of the goodies the first time around
> -- at least goodies included in the fee. If we want to supply
> JONAT-logoed bonnet badges, key chains, tire pressure gauges, emergency
> repair kits, pins, hats, t-shirts, jackets, or items at the sector
> level, (all available BTW, if anyone wants me to price them through a
> customer of mine). I think we should make them available for individual
> purchase on the web site. We can make some money on those if we want --
> the perceived value dictum will apply. If people want to buy something,
> great. If they don't we'll know what to not produce two years from now.
> There's more detail to this concept, but I'm talking generally right
> now.
>
> I'd encourage everyone, both SCs and participants, to do as much from
> the Internet as possible, things like printing out their own sector maps
> to keep costs down. I'd charge individuals for sector maps or have them
> pay to copy them themselves if they need them at the start of a sector.
>
> In other words, if an out-of-pocket expense can be assigned to an
> individual participant, it would be up to them to pay for it. If not,
> then it comes out of a general fund. What comprises unassigned
> out-of-pocket expenses? In order of importance (IMHO) -- web hosting,
> office supplies, vehicle expenses to check out the routes of each
> sector, even food and lodging expenses to check out the food and lodging
> in advance if there's enough left over. I know my wife and I are
> planning a romantic Valentine's getaway to check out the route, food
> stops, and lodging from Phoenix to Williams to Lake Havasu and back this
> weekend. (Yes, I'm in the doghouse.)
>
> If we have 500 participants, a $10 donation would give us $5000. Are we
> anywhere near that out-of-pocket? Even if you head honchos had $1000 in
> expenses, that would still leave about $200 average per SC to cover
> expenses (which I thing should be apportioned based on sector mileage).
> Don't call the $10 a fee or a charge. Just give the participants some
> idea of what went into the tour -- most have some inkling of that
> already -- and explain that the $10 is to reimburse all of the JONAT
> coordinators for a portion of the out-of-pocket expenses they incurred
> putting this trek together.
>
> OK, thought process is coalescing....
>
> Even better, what does everyone think about making the donation totally
> voluntary? Suppose we have a donation space right at the bottom of the
> registration form with four check boxes...
> [ ]$10  [ ]$25  [ ]$50  [ ]Other $______   (Most people pick the middle
> one. :->)
> ...and a "why we need your donations" explanation that spells out the
> time, effort, and cost that went into JONAT. If we really wanted to get
> carried away, we could print up a list of all the donors and in what
> range they gave and make that a part of the route binder:
> <$10 (which would include anyone who didn't give anything and make them
> look like a real cheapskate), $10-24 (kind of cheap), $25-49 (decent
> givers), >$50 (very generous). We can keep some seed money for 2006, but
> anything beyond that we can give to a charity, perhaps something like
> one's that are trying to preserve Jaguar habitat in Central America. All
> that minimal cost stuff I was brainstorming about a few paragraphs up,
> fits in with this. Excess money goes to a charity so anything any of us
> can do to keep costs low, increases what we can give. We can say that
> right on the website.
>
> Here are a few examples of possible recipients:
>
> http://www.targetearth.org/jaguarcreek/eden_jc_reserve.html
> http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/species/jaguar/index.html
> And the one I was really looking for (sponsored by Jaguar Cars):
> http://wcs.org/7490/jag-index/
>
> I can't imagine participants not getting behind this. I would be totally
> behind it and I think it will bring in more money than we need.
>
> We're incorporated as a non-profit, correct? We'd just need a PayPal
> account and a mailing address.
>
> Next time around, we can get fancy and offer premiums for larger
> donations, etc. We can use our excess donations going to the charity as
> a selling point for sponsors. And, after we have one under our belt with
> a bunch of participants, sponsors will be begging us to be included.
> (OK, that might be a bit of wishful thinking.)
>
> OK, you've kept me up way to late.
>
> Mark - AZ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On
> Behalf Of Bob
> Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 10:16 PM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [JONAT] That pesky $45 tour fee...
>
> Mark
>
> You and Bob both have some very good points, and one's that we really
> need to consider.  I guess I had been thinking from a personal
> standpoint that $50us ($70cdn) would be a pretty small cost for a Tour
> that will cost much more than this once you roll gas/meals/lodging into
> it, but perhaps I should be thinking about the single sector
> participant.
>
> If we have a minimum fee, of say $20 for the Tour or less, it would be a
> bit more palatable (basically to cover the cost of a good "rally badge"
> for the front of the cars to identify participants).  This would be a
> nice souvenir collectors item, and you'd probably have to be a real
> cheapskate not to fork over the $20.  Any other costs (i.e. shipping,
> etc.) would have to be borne by donations, either by one of us or by an
> outside group.
>
> Zero, of course would be better, but if we have say 500 individual
> participants, and a $20 badge cost, that's $10,000us.  Can we raise
> this?
> We'd need a fundraising guy to come up with this in pretty short order.
> (Volunteers?)
>
> I personally think $0 is not the right number.  I have learnt over the
> years that people tend to put the value on an item in relation to what
> it costs them (and I don't necessarily mean money).  I'd rather see some
> fee, a reasonable fee, that will not scare too many people away.
>
> I guess the basic questions are:
> Is $50 the right amount, or will we loose the participants.
> Is $20 the right amount, or will some still be scared away.
> Is $0 the right amount.
>
> Comments?
>
> Bob England
> '69 E-Type & '72 XJ6
> Jaguar Owner's North American Tour (JONAT) Route Coordinator
> <http://www.jonat.org/>
>
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