[JONAT] Costs and revenue
Richard Jones
jonat@autox.team.net
Thu Feb 26 14:02:02 2004
I don't quite get it. But if 30 charities is somehow simpler and better
than 1 charity for raising money, hey -- no problem.
Dick.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob" <engl@accesscomm.ca>
To: <jonat@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 2:39 PM
Subject: RE: [JONAT] Costs and revenue
> The original concept was that each sector would have the option of
raising
> money for it's own sector. This keeps it simple. We do have to select a
> JONAT central charity yet ...
>
> Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Richard Jones
> Sent: February 26, 2004 2:30 PM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [JONAT] Costs and revenue
>
>
>
> Different charities for each sector??
> 30+ charities?
> How about just picking 1 (internationally accepted) charity for all?
>
> Dick.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob" <engl@accesscomm.ca>
> To: <jonat@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 10:56 AM
> Subject: RE: [JONAT] Costs and revenue
>
>
> > Regina is Multiple Sclerosis ... have you selected one for you
sector ?
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> > Behalf Of Dr Gregory Andrachuk
> > Sent: February 26, 2004 9:55 AM
> > To: jonat@autox.team.net
> > Subject: Re: [JONAT] Costs and revenue
> >
> >
> > Bob: selling of a fee for this thing will require specifics about
WHICH
> > charity, and where it is. It isn't reasonable to expect people in
> Victoria
> > to be excited about contributing to a charity in Atlanta.
> > Gregory
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bob" <engl@accesscomm.ca>
> > To: <jonat@autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 6:04 AM
> > Subject: RE: [JONAT] Costs and revenue
> >
> >
> > : Mark
> > :
> > : You are right on a number of counts, but I disagree on others.
Keep
> in
> > : mind, I'm an Engineer not an accountant, and forced into putting a
> budget
> > : together as no-one else would volunteer. The budget was reviewed
by
> > others,
> > : but you can blame me for it 100%.
> > :
> > : I did want to clarify one thing though. The $5000 I mentioned in
my
> > e-mail
> > : was seed money for printing the plates, not an out-of-pocket
amount
> for
> > low
> > : participation. Sorry if I mislead you on this - my better half
would
> kill
> > : me if I dropped $5k on this event!
> > :
> > : Also, keep in mind as we move along we are refining the costs.
For
> > example,
> > : we have some legal advice (yesterday) that indicated rather than
> register
> > as
> > : a non-profit (not a charity) (registering as a charity is about
$300
> by
> > the
> > : way, this is info from late Tuesday) with participants, we're best
to
> be
> > an
> > : association with members. Although this is in Canada only, it
still
> is a
> > : pretty darn good saving, which would mean additional $ to charity.
> > :
> > : I haven't heard anyone mention charity yet (including me), lets
not
> forget
> > : this aspect.
> > :
> > : Bob England
> > :
> > :
> > : -----Original Message-----
> > : From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> > : Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
> > : Sent: February 26, 2004 2:41 AM
> > : To: jonat@autox.team.net
> > : Subject: [JONAT] Costs and revenue
> > :
> > :
> > : "A good portion of our membership monies will come from
participants
> that
> > : are in the local clubs - this may create a situation where we
would
> not
> > : reach the break even number due to all of the "exempt" drivers in
this
> > : scenario" - this would tick me off royally as I'm the guy who is
> likely
> > : going to have to spring the $5,000 to pay for the registration
> packages
> > : until the money starts rolling (well trickling really) in." -Bob
> > :
> > : See:
> > : http://jonat.org/bob/registrationform/registrationbudget.htm
> > : For the numbers I reference below.
> > :
> > : Bob,
> > :
> > : Oh, pullllleeeaaaaassssse! You are making it look like you are
going
> to be
> > : $5000 out of pocket if we only have 100 entrants. No way!
> > :
> > : I started to write you an e-mail off list because I felt we were
> > : overcharging. A number of us requested that you keep the costs
down,
> but
> > in
> > : the end, the EC came up with a cost close to where it was before
we
> > started
> > : the discussion. That's fine. It's your decision. I was too
irritated
> at
> > the
> > : time and held the e-mail until I could tone down my rhetoric. This
> > however,
> > : sends me over the top, so I'm cranking up my old-time cash
register
> and
> > : pullin' the shotgun out from under the counter.
> > :
> > : First of all, you guys came up with the rule that if there aren't
five
> > : entrants in a sector, the SC has to pay. Well, excuse me, but how
are
> you
> > : going to have 90 free SCs with only 14 paid entrants. You would
have
> at
> > : most, two people on a free ride. That means you'd have 102 paid
> > : registrations which would equal, with shipping, $4794Cdn. Given
total
> > : expenses of $5369.28, you'd be out less than $600.
> > :
> > : Cha-ching.
> > :
> > : Let's take a look at some of the expenses. Why do we have to
register
> as a
> > : charity? In two countries? We're not doing any charitable work. We
> might
> > be
> > : passing money through to a charity, but it doesn't mean that we
have
> to
> > : register as one. All we have to do, if we want to go to the
trouble
> right
> > : now, is form a non-profit corporation. In the U.S. that costs a
few
> > hundred
> > : dollars. I can't believe it's much more in Canada. You don't have
to
> do
> > that
> > : in every country just because you're driving there. Just pick one.
US?
> > : Canada? But why be out of pocket now? Use some of the extra money
> after
> > the
> > : tour. There's $2000 in costs eliminated.
> > :
> > : Cha-ching.
> > :
> > : What are the registration inserts? We can get copies made down
here
> for
> > : 5¢/page. If you double that for Cdn$, that's 50 pages per entrant.
> What
> > are
> > : we printing that's 50 pages? Someone is doing a whole lot of
writing.
> If
> > : it's the JONAT info, maps, and directions, the simple solution is
to
> have
> > : all that on line (as we discussed on this forum), have people
download
> it,
> > : and print it out themselves. If someone who doesn't have Internet
> access
> > : knows about the tour, a friend had to have told them. The friend
would
> > print
> > : out info. For those who have no way of getting the information,
the
> SCs
> > can
> > : bring a copy of the route info to the starting point and have the
> > travelers
> > : make the copies themselves. Add another $565+Cdn.
> > :
> > : Cha-ching -- savings subtotal $2565 pops up in curly numbers. At
the
> same
> > : time, we've cut the shipping costs, and reduced the amount of
stuff
> the
> > SCs
> > : have to carry from one sector to the next.
> > :
> > : Packaging costs. You have $2.00 + tax for packaging for each
entrant.
> That
> > : would be $20 for a box and filler to send 10 plates to an SC. We
don't
> > have
> > : to get fancy to send things to the SC. Instead wrap the license
plates
> in
> > : old newspapers -- they're free. Go to the local grocery or
computer
> store
> > : and get boxes. Cut a piece of corrugated cardboard and wrap it
around
> the
> > : ten plates. Tape the ends and the overlap. The plates will provide
the
> > : rigidity. They aren't going to get bent. Packaging costs have now
been
> > : reduced to $0. Even if you wanted to buy boxes that were close to
the
> > : correct size, they would be at most, $5 with tax. For 100
> participants,
> > : that's a savings of $200+Cdn or around $50 if you buy boxes.
> > :
> > : Cha-ching -- the little pointy-topped metal plates say savings
> subtotal
> > : approx. $2700.
> > :
> > : Now take a look at shipping costs. I think you are totally off
base.
> If an
> > : SC has ten registrants, there is no way it is going to cost $70 to
> ship 10
> > : aluminum license plates to a SC (even if you were going to include
the
> > ream
> > : of paper which doesn't appear to be necessary). I can't see it
costing
> > more
> > : than $20 by UPS ground. Actually, I think something that size and
> weight
> > : anywhere within the US would be about $10US. If it's a lot more
than
> my
> > : estimate to ship from Canada compared to the US, then ship one box
> with
> > all
> > : the plates across the border and have someone here send them out
to
> the
> > SCs.
> > : Savings from $70 estimate to $20 estimate - at least $500 for 100
> > entrants.
> > :
> > : Cha-ching, cha-ching -- savings total at least $3200Cdn.
> > :
> > : OK, the big concern is what do we do with the late registrants?
First
> off,
> > : don't make an excessive amount of plates in advance. I'm assuming
that
> we
> > : are talking vinyl cut-outs on the aluminum plate. The most time
> consuming
> > : part is setting up the software to make your image. Once that's
done,
> it
> > : doesn't cost any more to make up ten sets of letters than it does
to
> make
> > : 100. Sure, you have to load the vinyl into the machine but that's
a 5
> > minute
> > : job. I know because my brother did it as a sideline for a while.
Next,
> > make
> > : the late registrants pay. Make it clear that if they register
after a
> > : certain date, the plates will have already been sent to the SC, so
> they
> > will
> > : have to have theirs made specially and sent directly to them and
> there's
> > no
> > : guarantee that it will arrive in time for their sector departure.
Get
> a
> > time
> > : frame for an order of a few plates from the vinyl cutter and post
it
> on
> > the
> > : web site. Calculate how much it is to send one plate ground, 3rd
day,
> 2nd
> > : day, and overnig!
> > : ht and have those shipping options available on the web site. Bump
up
> the
> > : registration by an additional $20 for your time and trouble to
> > individually
> > : pack the plate. If 25 of the 100 registrants are late (and if our
club
> is
> > : any indication, that's a conservative figure), you have an
additional
> $500
> > : in revenue..
> > :
> > : If they don't get the plates in time, it's no big deal. I don't
have a
> > place
> > : to mount it on my car and probably the majority of entrants won't
> either.
> > : Jags in states with no front plate requirement often don't have
the
> ugly
> > : brackets installed. People in states that require front plates
can't
> put
> > : them on. So most people are just going to be carrying them inside
the
> car
> > : anyway.
> > :
> > : With the savings and revenue projections above and with only 100
> entrants
> > : (an underestimation I'll bet) not only won't you be out of pocket,
> you'll
> > : have over $2500 for charity, to form a non-profit, and as seed
money n
> ext
> > : time. If we eliminated the exorbitant $7.00 shipping cost and just
> charge
> > : the $40 for the people who are going to pick up their plates at
the
> > : beginning of their sector, we'd still have nearly $2000 excess
with
> only
> > 100
> > : registrants.
> > :
> > : Keeping that in mind, here is how I'm going to approach it in my
> sector.
> > : People who want to be JONATers with the plate and everything can
pay
> the
> > $40
> > : or whatever. By the same token, you guys are out of pocket for the
> website
> > : and the bank charges. If we had only 100 entrants, that would be
> > : $4.50Cdn/person. So, I'm going to get all the people who don't
want or
> > need
> > : all the paraphernalia to kick in $10US for you guys and the work
> you've
> > : done. That would be about $15Cdn. I expect about 25 local cars to
take
> at
> > : least part of my sector, so that's another $375 for the kitty.
Keep in
> > mind
> > : that my group is already paying $44 for the Rt. 66 Fun Run. The
> Phoenix
> > : spur, the Fun Run, and the roads back are the exact same route
they'd
> take
> > : if you, me, and the local club was not involved, so there's not
much
> value
> > : add there. I'll push hard for the folks traveling to the Grand
Canyon
> or
> > : earlier in my sector to pay the $36US, or maybe I'll see if they
want
> to
> > pay
> > : $20 and skip the license plat!
> > : es and 50 pages of stuff.
> > :
> > : OK, now that I've gotten that off my chest, I'll get my route
> directions
> > to
> > : you, along with the hotels and eateries, just in time for the 2/29
> > deadline.
> > : :-)
> > :
> > : Mark - AZ
> > :
> > :
> > : _______________________________________________
> > : JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> > : REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> > : www.jonat.org
> > : _______________________________________________
> > :
> > : _______________________________________________
> > : JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> > : REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> > : www.jonat.org
> > : _______________________________________________
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> > REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> > www.jonat.org
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> > REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> > www.jonat.org
> > _______________________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________