[JONAT] Costs and revenue
Bob
jonat@autox.team.net
Thu Feb 26 14:25:13 2004
Think of each Sector as an individual Tour, all linked together. The more
we have to worry about sending money back and forth, and the amounts, the
more complex it gets (witness the most recent discussions). If any Sector
wants to donate to a central JONAT charity, I don't think that would be a
problem at all. It's up to the SC's and their committee.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Richard Jones
Sent: February 26, 2004 2:58 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] Costs and revenue
I don't quite get it. But if 30 charities is somehow simpler and better
than 1 charity for raising money, hey -- no problem.
Dick.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob" <engl@accesscomm.ca>
To: <jonat@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 2:39 PM
Subject: RE: [JONAT] Costs and revenue
> The original concept was that each sector would have the option of
raising
> money for it's own sector. This keeps it simple. We do have to select a
> JONAT central charity yet ...
>
> Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Richard Jones
> Sent: February 26, 2004 2:30 PM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [JONAT] Costs and revenue
>
>
>
> Different charities for each sector??
> 30+ charities?
> How about just picking 1 (internationally accepted) charity for all?
>
> Dick.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob" <engl@accesscomm.ca>
> To: <jonat@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 10:56 AM
> Subject: RE: [JONAT] Costs and revenue
>
>
> > Regina is Multiple Sclerosis ... have you selected one for you
sector ?
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> > Behalf Of Dr Gregory Andrachuk
> > Sent: February 26, 2004 9:55 AM
> > To: jonat@autox.team.net
> > Subject: Re: [JONAT] Costs and revenue
> >
> >
> > Bob: selling of a fee for this thing will require specifics about
WHICH
> > charity, and where it is. It isn't reasonable to expect people in
> Victoria
> > to be excited about contributing to a charity in Atlanta.
> > Gregory
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bob" <engl@accesscomm.ca>
> > To: <jonat@autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 6:04 AM
> > Subject: RE: [JONAT] Costs and revenue
> >
> >
> > : Mark
> > :
> > : You are right on a number of counts, but I disagree on others.
Keep
> in
> > : mind, I'm an Engineer not an accountant, and forced into putting a
> budget
> > : together as no-one else would volunteer. The budget was reviewed
by
> > others,
> > : but you can blame me for it 100%.
> > :
> > : I did want to clarify one thing though. The $5000 I mentioned in
my
> > e-mail
> > : was seed money for printing the plates, not an out-of-pocket
amount
> for
> > low
> > : participation. Sorry if I mislead you on this - my better half
would
> kill
> > : me if I dropped $5k on this event!
> > :
> > : Also, keep in mind as we move along we are refining the costs.
For
> > example,
> > : we have some legal advice (yesterday) that indicated rather than
> register
> > as
> > : a non-profit (not a charity) (registering as a charity is about
$300
> by
> > the
> > : way, this is info from late Tuesday) with participants, we're best
to
> be
> > an
> > : association with members. Although this is in Canada only, it
still
> is a
> > : pretty darn good saving, which would mean additional $ to charity.
> > :
> > : I haven't heard anyone mention charity yet (including me), lets
not
> forget
> > : this aspect.
> > :
> > : Bob England
> > :
> > :
> > : -----Original Message-----
> > : From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> > : Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
> > : Sent: February 26, 2004 2:41 AM
> > : To: jonat@autox.team.net
> > : Subject: [JONAT] Costs and revenue
> > :
> > :
> > : "A good portion of our membership monies will come from
participants
> that
> > : are in the local clubs - this may create a situation where we
would
> not
> > : reach the break even number due to all of the "exempt" drivers in
this
> > : scenario" - this would tick me off royally as I'm the guy who is
> likely
> > : going to have to spring the $5,000 to pay for the registration
> packages
> > : until the money starts rolling (well trickling really) in." -Bob
> > :
> > : See:
> > : http://jonat.org/bob/registrationform/registrationbudget.htm
> > : For the numbers I reference below.
> > :
> > : Bob,
> > :
> > : Oh, pullllleeeaaaaassssse! You are making it look like you are
going
> to be
> > : $5000 out of pocket if we only have 100 entrants. No way!
> > :
> > : I started to write you an e-mail off list because I felt we were
> > : overcharging. A number of us requested that you keep the costs
down,
> but
> > in
> > : the end, the EC came up with a cost close to where it was before
we
> > started
> > : the discussion. That's fine. It's your decision. I was too
irritated
> at
> > the
> > : time and held the e-mail until I could tone down my rhetoric. This
> > however,
> > : sends me over the top, so I'm cranking up my old-time cash
register
> and
> > : pullin' the shotgun out from under the counter.
> > :
> > : First of all, you guys came up with the rule that if there aren't
five
> > : entrants in a sector, the SC has to pay. Well, excuse me, but how
are
> you
> > : going to have 90 free SCs with only 14 paid entrants. You would
have
> at
> > : most, two people on a free ride. That means you'd have 102 paid
> > : registrations which would equal, with shipping, $4794Cdn. Given
total
> > : expenses of $5369.28, you'd be out less than $600.
> > :
> > : Cha-ching.
> > :
> > : Let's take a look at some of the expenses. Why do we have to
register
> as a
> > : charity? In two countries? We're not doing any charitable work. We
> might
> > be
> > : passing money through to a charity, but it doesn't mean that we
have
> to
> > : register as one. All we have to do, if we want to go to the
trouble
> right
> > : now, is form a non-profit corporation. In the U.S. that costs a
few
> > hundred
> > : dollars. I can't believe it's much more in Canada. You don't have
to
> do
> > that
> > : in every country just because you're driving there. Just pick one.
US?
> > : Canada? But why be out of pocket now? Use some of the extra money
> after
> > the
> > : tour. There's $2000 in costs eliminated.
> > :
> > : Cha-ching.
> > :
> > : What are the registration inserts? We can get copies made down
here
> for
> > : 5¢/page. If you double that for Cdn$, that's 50 pages per entrant.
> What
> > are
> > : we printing that's 50 pages? Someone is doing a whole lot of
writing.
> If
> > : it's the JONAT info, maps, and directions, the simple solution is
to
> have
> > : all that on line (as we discussed on this forum), have people
download
> it,
> > : and print it out themselves. If someone who doesn't have Internet
> access
> > : knows about the tour, a friend had to have told them. The friend
would
> > print
> > : out info. For those who have no way of getting the information,
the
> SCs
> > can
> > : bring a copy of the route info to the starting point and have the
> > travelers
> > : make the copies themselves. Add another $565+Cdn.
> > :
> > : Cha-ching -- savings subtotal $2565 pops up in curly numbers. At
the
> same
> > : time, we've cut the shipping costs, and reduced the amount of
stuff
> the
> > SCs
> > : have to carry from one sector to the next.
> > :
> > : Packaging costs. You have $2.00 + tax for packaging for each
entrant.
> That
> > : would be $20 for a box and filler to send 10 plates to an SC. We
don't
> > have
> > : to get fancy to send things to the SC. Instead wrap the license
plates
> in
> > : old newspapers -- they're free. Go to the local grocery or
computer
> store
> > : and get boxes. Cut a piece of corrugated cardboard and wrap it
around
> the
> > : ten plates. Tape the ends and the overlap. The plates will provide
the
> > : rigidity. They aren't going to get bent. Packaging costs have now
been
> > : reduced to $0. Even if you wanted to buy boxes that were close to
the
> > : correct size, they would be at most, $5 with tax. For 100
> participants,
> > : that's a savings of $200+Cdn or around $50 if you buy boxes.
> > :
> > : Cha-ching -- the little pointy-topped metal plates say savings
> subtotal
> > : approx. $2700.
> > :
> > : Now take a look at shipping costs. I think you are totally off
base.
> If an
> > : SC has ten registrants, there is no way it is going to cost $70 to
> ship 10
> > : aluminum license plates to a SC (even if you were going to include
the
> > ream
> > : of paper which doesn't appear to be necessary). I can't see it
costing
> > more
> > : than $20 by UPS ground. Actually, I think something that size and
> weight
> > : anywhere within the US would be about $10US. If it's a lot more
than
> my
> > : estimate to ship from Canada compared to the US, then ship one box
> with
> > all
> > : the plates across the border and have someone here send them out
to
> the
> > SCs.
> > : Savings from $70 estimate to $20 estimate - at least $500 for 100
> > entrants.
> > :
> > : Cha-ching, cha-ching -- savings total at least $3200Cdn.
> > :
> > : OK, the big concern is what do we do with the late registrants?
First
> off,
> > : don't make an excessive amount of plates in advance. I'm assuming
that
> we
> > : are talking vinyl cut-outs on the aluminum plate. The most time
> consuming
> > : part is setting up the software to make your image. Once that's
done,
> it
> > : doesn't cost any more to make up ten sets of letters than it does
to
> make
> > : 100. Sure, you have to load the vinyl into the machine but that's
a 5
> > minute
> > : job. I know because my brother did it as a sideline for a while.
Next,
> > make
> > : the late registrants pay. Make it clear that if they register
after a
> > : certain date, the plates will have already been sent to the SC, so
> they
> > will
> > : have to have theirs made specially and sent directly to them and
> there's
> > no
> > : guarantee that it will arrive in time for their sector departure.
Get
> a
> > time
> > : frame for an order of a few plates from the vinyl cutter and post
it
> on
> > the
> > : web site. Calculate how much it is to send one plate ground, 3rd
day,
> 2nd
> > : day, and overnig!
> > : ht and have those shipping options available on the web site. Bump
up
> the
> > : registration by an additional $20 for your time and trouble to
> > individually
> > : pack the plate. If 25 of the 100 registrants are late (and if our
club
> is
> > : any indication, that's a conservative figure), you have an
additional
> $500
> > : in revenue..
> > :
> > : If they don't get the plates in time, it's no big deal. I don't
have a
> > place
> > : to mount it on my car and probably the majority of entrants won't
> either.
> > : Jags in states with no front plate requirement often don't have
the
> ugly
> > : brackets installed. People in states that require front plates
can't
> put
> > : them on. So most people are just going to be carrying them inside
the
> car
> > : anyway.
> > :
> > : With the savings and revenue projections above and with only 100
> entrants
> > : (an underestimation I'll bet) not only won't you be out of pocket,
> you'll
> > : have over $2500 for charity, to form a non-profit, and as seed
money n
> ext
> > : time. If we eliminated the exorbitant $7.00 shipping cost and just
> charge
> > : the $40 for the people who are going to pick up their plates at
the
> > : beginning of their sector, we'd still have nearly $2000 excess
with
> only
> > 100
> > : registrants.
> > :
> > : Keeping that in mind, here is how I'm going to approach it in my
> sector.
> > : People who want to be JONATers with the plate and everything can
pay
> the
> > $40
> > : or whatever. By the same token, you guys are out of pocket for the
> website
> > : and the bank charges. If we had only 100 entrants, that would be
> > : $4.50Cdn/person. So, I'm going to get all the people who don't
want or
> > need
> > : all the paraphernalia to kick in $10US for you guys and the work
> you've
> > : done. That would be about $15Cdn. I expect about 25 local cars to
take
> at
> > : least part of my sector, so that's another $375 for the kitty.
Keep in
> > mind
> > : that my group is already paying $44 for the Rt. 66 Fun Run. The
> Phoenix
> > : spur, the Fun Run, and the roads back are the exact same route
they'd
> take
> > : if you, me, and the local club was not involved, so there's not
much
> value
> > : add there. I'll push hard for the folks traveling to the Grand
Canyon
> or
> > : earlier in my sector to pay the $36US, or maybe I'll see if they
want
> to
> > pay
> > : $20 and skip the license plat!
> > : es and 50 pages of stuff.
> > :
> > : OK, now that I've gotten that off my chest, I'll get my route
> directions
> > to
> > : you, along with the hotels and eateries, just in time for the 2/29
> > deadline.
> > : :-)
> > :
> > : Mark - AZ
> > :
> > :
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