Stupid TOP GUN quotes, was RE: [Shotimes] Plastic Hood Poll

[Jim Ryan]

E-3 "Sentry" is the USAF Boeing 707 AWACS (Airborne Warning And Control
System).
	began operation in 1977

E-2 "Hawkeye" is the USN AWACS counterpart.
	began operation in 1961

The F-14 Tomcat is a long-range "fleet defender" aircraft (not a
dogfighter).  It is affectionately known as the 'TomTurkey' because it is
big, lumbering, and clumsy .  It was designed around the long-range AIM-54
Phoenix missile.  It can simultaneously track, acquire, and engage up to 6
targets at a range of 100+ miles (using 6 Phoenix missiles).

The AIM-54A missile (1974) had a very low probability of kill (PK) because
it was easily "fooled" by enemy radar jammers.  The AIM-54C (1986) and the
AIM-54C Sealed (1988) have on-board electronic-counter-measures, which give
them a much higher PK.  They're still in service and will remain as long as
the F-14 is around.

The F/A-18 A/B/C/D was designed as a multi-role aircraft from day one.  It
was chosen to replace the F-4 Phantom II in the fighter role, and the A-7
Corsair II in the light attack role.  The A-6 Intruder is a medium attack
aircraft (carries more bombs) and the F/A-18 was intended to complement it,
not replace it.

With the retirement of the A-6 about 6 years ago the Navy was left without a
medium attack aircraft.  They created a few F-14 Strike Fighters or
"Bombcats" but there were problems with bomb adhesion - the bombs could only
be carried center-fuselage and when they were released the airflow thru that
section would not let the bombs fall properly.  I think they finally solved
that problem and the plan was to give all 210 F-14s the capability to drop
laser-guided bombs.  They decided that the bombing role would put too much
stress on the 30 year old airframe so only 80 of the 210 aircraft were
modified.

They even hung bombs on the S-3 Viking anti-submarine aircraft, called it
the Strike Viking, but that idea was scrapped.  However, the S-3 did pick up
one previous role of the A-6, specifically the KA-6 aerial refueling tanker.
The new variant is called KS-3 - I'm not positive but I think the "K" prefix
is for tan'K'er.  The USMC uses KC-130s, and the USAF uses KC-135s and
KC-10s, and probably same KC-130s for helicopter refueling.

The F-14 is coming to the end of its service life and the Navy wanted
another multi-role aircraft to replace the F-14 and the A-6 and thereby
simplify maintenance and inventory issues.  In comes the F/A-18 E/F Super
Hornet.  While the "little" Hornet does an excellent job replacing the F-4
and A-7, the Super Hornet has big shoes to fill and only does a mediocre job
replacing 2 great aircraft.

The F-8 Crusader, last of the gunfighters (carried no missiles), was in
service from 1957 to 1985/6 so it probably wasn't the other aircraft you
saw.  The A-7 Corsair II in service from 1965 to 1992 was probably the
aircraft.  It is from the same manufacturer as the F-8 and is based on a
shorter version of the F-8 airframe.  The F-8 is long and skinny, and goes
supersonic due to its after-burning engine.  The A-7 is short and fat, and
has a non-after-burning engine.  They have the same overall configuration -
high-wing and chin air intake.  I'll have to watch more closely next time I
see the movie.

Sorry for the long post but I've been an airplane nut since I was a kid (30
years) and a SHO nut for only 11 years.


James F. Ryan III
'91 Plus - white/mocha
temporarily living in Chicago, IL



-----Original Message-----
From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ian Fisher
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 6:53 AM
To: 'Ron Nottingham'; shotimes@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: Stupid TOP GUN quotes, was RE: [Shotimes] Plastic Hood Poll


E3 Hawkeye, eyes in the sky. Watch Behind Enemy Lines for more realistic
Naval aviation cinema. The first lines from that movie are from a
Hawkeye contacting the carrier about an "unknown rider".

The Phoenix is no longer produced. Many of them were found to be
defective and they were all retired from commission. It was an awesome
missile, but apparently it didn't work as planned. However, I think that
the Phoenix was still being used in 1986 when the movie was filmed. I
think that they tried to incorporate some heat seeking sidewinders in
the movie as well. It's difficult to tell since in one scene, an F14 is
carrying aux fuel tanks (which would have been dropped for less weight
and better maneuverability), the next shot it shows a camera mounted on
a pylon and then a few shots later, missiles are magically fired from
empty pylons.

I am not sure why the F18's weren't used. (there is a shot of one being
staged on a catapult, but we are supposed to think it's a Tomcat. (This
happened all the time in the movie, Crusaders, Intruders, Hornets all
being used interchangeably, an F14 taking off from land without a
catapult when its supposed to be launching form a carrier, etc)
 I suspect that in 1986 the Top Gun base in Miramar was mainly focused
on training F14 Tomcat aviators and that the F18's weren't fully on the
scene yet. It's not until recently with the demise of the A6 intruder
and military downsizing that the F18 has been transformed into a dual
role plane; carrying either light bomb loads or air to air weaponry for
fighter/patrol duties.

Watch Behind Enemy Lines; great movie.

Ian


-----Original Message-----
From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ron Nottingham
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 8:18 AM
To: shotimes@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: Stupid TOP GUN quotes, was RE: [Shotimes] Plastic Hood Poll


OK, I know this is OT, but I just can't help myself.....

What get's me about that movie (I do like it anyway), is the fact that
they send just F-14's out to DOGFIGHT a MiG-28 (ohhhh boy, MiG's are
numbered using ODD numbers)!  Now, where was the E-3? (I think that is
it's designation, the twin turboprop airborne control system)  Why not
send the F-18's along with the F-14's?  Hornets are much better
dogfighters than Tomcats.  Since they only sent Tomcats, though, why did
they not use the AIM-54 Phoenix?  I guess, maybe because they didn't
have their "eyes".  Or maybe because they wanted to use a Sparrow
(Phoenix is a better missle to use, as one does not have to be on the
enemy's 6 or close to that proximity).  Or something a little better
than a Sparrow, especially in this tight of a dogfight, why not the
Sidewinder?

Oh well, it's just a movie...  I guess it wouldn't be "exciting" if it
were like real life.  E-3's acquire target, F-14's fly out, get good
radar signal from bogeys, launch AIM-54's from a safe distance, splash
bogeys before they even know somethings up, and return to the flight
deck.

Ron N. - Dalton, GA
90 SHO

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Fisher" <ianf@eden.rutgers.edu>
To: "'Jim Ryan'" <av8r567@optonline.net>; <shotimes@autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 1:01 AM
Subject: Stupid TOP GUN quotes, was RE: [Shotimes] Plastic Hood Poll


> Thanks Iceman
>
> Ice: I'm on his tail, I'm on his tail, I'm going for it, going for it,

> I'm going for the shot right now. Roger engage.
> Slider: I've got radar lock.
> Ice: Good tone, I'm taking a shot! (hits 50 million switches) Fire!
> (sparrow missile magically appears from camera mounted pylon.
> Ice: Bingo!
> Slider: (can't control himself) watch that sucker yeah!
> Mav: Ice, watch out, there's a MIG to your right..he's firing! (.22 mm

> rounds fired from a 50 cal mingun (I think..don't have F5 specs handy
> right now) pepper the fuselage under the canopy and some paint flakes
> off)
>
> The dialogue in that scene is sooo bad..
>
> Ahh..I can go on and on...sadly, most of this is from memory too. :(
>
> Prob one of my favorite movies albeit with some awesome footage and
> the worst video editing I have ever seen. Yes, if you've worn out 4
> VHS copies and have now moved on to the DVD, you may have noticed such

> interesting things such as: 1. Goose's presence in the last dog
> fighting scene although he died a few scenes prior.
> 2. Breaking high and right can be the opposite
> 3. Flying above cloud cover over land is synonymous with flying above
> water (they switch backgrounds so often its not even funny)
> 4. Maverick's "circus stunt flyby" results in (jester or viper's A4
> somehow getting back behind him. (on his 6)
>
> My favorite part: rolling scissors between the F14 and the A4.
>
> SHO content: none..Jim started it; I can't stop Top Gun movie lines
> once I am started..
>
> Ian
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim Ryan
> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 12:34 AM
> To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [Shotimes] Plastic Hood Poll
>
>
> I'm in, roger, engaging.  (Top Gun movie quote)
>
> '91 Plus - Oxford white
> - rear decklid spoiler
> - blacked-out "B" pillar
> - black sideview mirrors
> - "24-valve" badges
> - white slicers
> - autolamp
> - EATC
> - keyless entry
> - power antenna
> - power front seats
> - JBL stereo
> - moonroof
>
> - "power bulge" hood
> - rod shifter
> - white TAURUS on trunklid
>
> born-on-date - 6/91
>
> Car has every SHO and Plus option except the CD-player (didn't think
> it would ever take off - DOH!!! mud on my face).
>
>
> James F. Ryan III
> '91 Plus - white/mocha
> temporarily living in Chicago, IL
> (me, not the car) _______________________________________________
> Shotimes mailing list
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