[Shotimes] Re: OT: Pontiac Fiero or is it Firero? :)
Steve Tatro
stevetatro@att.net
Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:01:18 -0500
Bah, what do you know old man! I heard there was a conspiracy involving
the original SHO! Damn Yamaha V6 originally had 300hp, and would've
torn the 'Stang a new one! That's why FoMoCo de-tuned it to the 220hp.
Just wish we could figure out how to unleash those extra 80hp.
Puzzled.
Steve Tatro
Red/Black '93 with 166k miles
Cincinnati, Ohio
P.S. Anybody who believes any of this crap I just wrote should
immediately unsubscribe from the mailing list.
-----Original Message-----
From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ron Porter
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 2:36 PM
To: SHOtimes Mailing List
Subject: RE: [Shotimes] Re: OT: Pontiac Fiero or is it Firero? :)
Ron, Ron, Ron.........you are spending too much time sniffing whatever
the Fiero "conspiracy detectives" on the Fiero lists are sniffing!!!
;-)
None of this "conspiracy" crap was ever true. Fieros weren't
selling........they cost GM too much to build.....therefore car gets
axed.....PERIOD.
Chevy never really cared whether cars were quicker than the
Vette.....the Corvette buyers will buy the damn thing anyway. In the
late '70s, the new Z28 was as quick, if not quicker than the same-year
Corvette. And, during that time, the 400ci T/A Trans Am was quicker than
both of them. The 455 Super Duty T/As of the mid-70s were quicker than
the same-year Corvettes, also. The mfrs want to sell what makes money.
One of the biggest secrets in the auto world is whether the Corvette
EVER made money for GM.
Ron Porter
-----Original Message-----
From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron Nottingham
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 8:52 AM
To: SHOtimes Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Re: OT: Pontiac Fiero or is it Firero? :)
First off, no stock Fiero was ever faster/quicker/better handling than
the same year stock Corvette.
Second, yes, Chevrolet, in a way, did kill the Fiero. There were
several engines that were planned to go into the Fiero, but never made
it due to the fact that the Fiero's performance would have equaled,
bettered, or come close to the Corvette for WAY less money. One engine
that was considered was an all-aluminum 2.9L V6 (no relation to the
60-degree Chevy V6) with twin turbos. The Fiero with this powerplant
was considerably faster and handled much better than the Corvette.
Remember, this was 1984, and the C4 was all new, Chevy couldn't have
it's 30 year old sportscar nameplate humiliated by a new upstart. Twin
turbos were canned, but even the normally aspirated version was just as
quick as the 'Vette, and still handled much better. This engine was
sadly scrapped. The next engine scheduled for the Fiero was the 1.8L
SOHC I4 Turbo (as seen in the Sunbird GT, Olds Firenza, and I think
Buick's iteration of the J-body). This engine gave the Fiero
performance very close to the Corvette, for WAY less money. The last
engine was the 2.8L Chevy 60-degree V6 with cast iron block and aluminum
heads. This engine made the Fiero slow enough that it wouldn't embarass
the 'Vette, and with the extra weight, it wouldn't out-handle the 'Vette
either. The 2.5L I4 "Tech-IV" or "Iron Duke" was always going to be the
base engine.
Since the HO version of the 2.8L V6 wouldn't be ready for full
production until the '85 model year, the only version of the Fiero for
it's debut year would be the 4-cylinder. This really did more to hurt
the Fiero's sales than anything. Extreme sporty looks, but econocar
performance. Then the fire fiasco (which only affected the 4-cylinders
and not the V6 models) gave the Fiero a bad name. The original Fiero
suspension wasn't the best sounding on paper, and was used to get the
car to market quickly and at a cheap price. The Fiero used a modified
Chevette front suspension up front, and a modified Citation X-11 in the
rear.
As far as horsepower, the 85 V6 model had 135hp, where as other GM's
used a 125hp version. 86, 87 and 88 used a 140hp version of the engine,
but the most hp other GM cars got was 135hp in 88, most were still the
125hp or 130hp version. The 5-speed wasn't available with the V6 until
'87, 85 and 86 got by with 4-speeds.
By the time the 88 Fiero came around with it's much improved suspension,
GM decided that there was not enough profit in a 30k-40k a year vehicle
(first year sales were above 100,000, but kept getting lower every
year). Even though "Chevy Brass" didn't kill the car after the 88 model
year, they did have a big hand in the whole deal. Who knows, if the
Fiero would have had one of the original scheduled V6's or even the
turbo-4 it's first year, maybe we would still have a Fiero, or maybe it
would have lasted a little longer than it did. It's all speculation,
though.
OK, the 350Z hasn't died... It's sales are better than Nissan had
hoped. Now, what killed the RX7, MR2, and 300ZX (Supra, Stealth, and
3000GT came
later) in the 95/96 model years were several things. One was a weak
dollar and a strong yen. Another was OBD-II and stronger emissions regs
in 96 (the RX7 could not meet emissions). The 300ZX could not meet
Federal side impact standards for the 97 model year. The Supra stayed
until '98 and the 3000GT until '99 (I think the Stealth died around
96/97). The redesigned Eclipse was supposed to be a replacement for
both the turbo Eclipse and the 3000GT (hence the V6 in the new Eclipse).
The Supra was killed by higher prices each year.
DOH! didn't mean to write a book :-)
Ron N. - Dalton, GA
90 SHO
89 325i
"It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald Mallinson" <dmall@mwonline.net>
> I don't think there is much truth to the rumor that the
> Fiero got "too close" to the vette, and was killed by Chevy lobbying.
> The last year Fiero, WAS the best one ever, much better suspension
> (earlier ones had CHEVETTE suspension for God's sake) and more HP,
> better styling and it was finally the car it really should have been
> from year one.
>
> If that is the case (Killed by Chevy brass), then the Chevy guys also
> killed the RX7, MR2, 350Z and the Supra. All specialty cars that died
> about the same time. It was just a horrible time for expensive (or
> even affordable) toys.
>
> Yes, GM wants to keep the Vette the top dog, that is why you
> didn't see the new GTO get the 400 hp motor that Bob Lutz kicked
> around. I am sure he got the "word". But awful sales killed the
> Fiero, not Chevy.
>
> I believe Ron Porter can back me up on this, he owns or has
> owned a Fiero, and knows more about them than me. How
> about it Ron?
>
> Ian Macoomb wrote:
> > Any truth to these quotes:
> >
> >
> > "The 1988's had superior suspension, superior engines, brakes, and
wiring,
> > so much so that they killed the line. Rumours are because it
outpreformed
> > the corvette of the same year in everything but top speed. Hmm 13G
> > or
53G
> > (I'm guessing, I have no idea what corvettes went for back then). "
> >
> > "Yes this is accurate.
> >
> > I have this article in Road and Track Magazine. The car didn't
outhandle
> > the vette, but was more nimble because of its size. Additionally,
> > they reduced the output of the engine, and put a governer becasue it
> > had a
higher
> > top speed - bahaha - and also used half of the gas. Out accelerated
> > the
car
> > in 1/4 times. Not rocket science, car weighs almost nothing, RWD
> > with R-engine setup = good weight distribution. Becasue of this
> > many people
have
> > opted to go with an engine conversion, which makes these cars
dengerously
> > quick.
> >
> > THis same issue happened with the Grand National, Cyclone and
> > Typhoon,
and
> > Camaro All detuned to not beat the flagship car - Corvette. "
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