[Shotimes] RE: OT - Selling a car
Ian Fisher
ianf@eden.rutgers.edu
Sun, 13 Apr 2003 23:18:25 -0400
Perhaps I am a college "kid", but I have also been out in the "real
world" for some time working for one of the nation's top 10 financial
institutions as well. Dare we call myself a "professional" as well? :)
The whole point of a check clearance period is not to make money on a
customer's money, but yet to ensure funds availability between financial
institutions. Federal regulations require that this be done in a
somewhat timely manner depending on the location of the drawee bank and
whether or not the account that it is being deposited into is an
interest bearing account or not. There are other factors involved such
as amount and location, etc, but I won't get into that here because it's
a bit complex.
For a wire transfer to take place, the buyer has to go to his/her
financial institution to authorize the wire. This person also must know
Paul's ABA/Routing Transit number and his account number; this is very
private information that I would not want to give out to a stranger. In
this specific situation, I don't know (didn't follow the complete
thread) who holds the lien on Paul's title. If it is a financial
institution that he also has a deposit account with, the process might
be a bit smoother.
As far as LIBOR goes (I don't see the connection to check clearance
here):
>From http://nt.mortgage101.com/partner-scripts/1024.asp?p=fidelity :
LIBOR - London InterBank Offered Rate
LIBOR is the rate on dollar-denominated deposits, also know as
Eurodollars, traded between banks in London. The index is quoted for one
month, three months, six months as well as one-year periods.
LIBOR is the base interest rate paid on deposits between banks in the
Eurodollar market. A Eurodollar is a dollar deposited in a bank in a
country where the currency is not the dollar. The Eurodollar market has
been around for over 40 years and is a major component of the
International financial market. London is the center of the Euromarket
in terms of volume.
The LIBOR rate quoted in the Wall Street Journal is an average of rate
quotes from five major banks. Bank of America, Barclays, Bank of Tokyo,
Deutsche Bank and Swiss Bank.
The most common quote for mortgages is the 6-month quote. LIBOR's cost
of money is a widely monitored international interest rate indicator.
LIBOR is currently being used by both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as an
index on the loans they purchase.
LIBOR is quoted daily in the Wall Street Journal's Money Rates and
compares most closely to the 1-Year Treasury Security index.
Ian "not in the real world, just a college kid" Fisher
-----Original Message-----
From: colin cooney [mailto:cooney_colin@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 10:54 PM
To: ianf@eden.rutgers.edu; shotimes@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Shotimes] RE: OT - Selling a car
Ian,
The whole point of the check clearance period on deposits is so the bank
makes money on your money, look up LIBOR, your a college kid you should
know
this stuff before you get out into the real world.
Obviously, the respective customers would have to suggest to their
respective banks that 1)one is interested in buying a car 2) that the
seller
is interested in selling the car. Thus far we have established both with
good certainty.
My point was : All that may be necessary is to have each person call
their
respective bank, and let the "professionals" handle the transfer of the
necessary paperwork, guaranteeing availability of funds, and
guaranteeing
release of lien and transfer of ownership once said funds have cleared.
Guys like you and I will (at best) do this 20 to 25 times in our
lifetime,
banks handle crap like this 20 times before the first coffee break. This
goes a long way toward each individual in the prospective transaction
having
the piece of mind that their money or title/car is not going to
disappear.
The strength of the respective institutions continuing basis of doing
business assures this. In other words, the banks haven't got any
interest in
screwing anybody. They also aren't going to take off with the money, or
the
car, everything is traceable, they have each others addresses, and legal
recourse if the fax line goes dead mid transmission.
Trust me, we put men on the moon over thirty years ago, Paul can
probably
sell his car this week.
>From: "Ian Fisher" <ianf@eden.rutgers.edu>
>To: "'colin cooney'" <cooney_colin@hotmail.com>,
><shotimes@autox.team.net>
>Subject: RE: [Shotimes] RE: OT - Selling a car
>Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:15:41 -0400
>
>How are banks going to talk to eachother without input from their
>customers?
>
>The bank doesn't earn interest during a check clearing period simply
>because the check hasn't cleared and the funds aren't available yet.
>There's no money to earn interest on until the check has cleared.
>
>Ian
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
>[mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of colin cooney
>Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 12:06 PM
>To: shotimes@autox.team.net
>Subject: Re: [Shotimes] RE: OT - Selling a car
>
>
>Why not simplify the process and give the guy who wants to buy it a
>copy of the title and a letter of intent to sell as a receipt for his
>money. You
>
>have to wait for his check to clear anyway, anyone who is hesitant as a
>buyer to await that process is HIGHLY SUSPECT.
>
>Then when his $$$ has cleared the bank and you get the lien clearance
>letter, you can give him the keys, the title and the letter, OR
>
>if his bank is holding things up, like in writing a check, eliminate
>the
>
>middlemen (you guys) and have the banks talk to each other to arrange
>the transfer of funds and the clearance of lien paperwork.
>
>Sometimes people use this as a negotiating tool, so that when you are
>all ready to go on your end, they can try to gouge you for an extra
>500, knowing
>that you have got all of your own money tied up in trying to make the
>sale
>finally happen.
>
>I would enlist the banks help in the documentation transfer, myself,
>make your bank earn some part of the interest they are gonna glean from
>the check
>clearance period, and it should allay any fears on the part of the
buyer
>as
>to how to hold you responsible for money they have turned over.
>
>For what its worth...
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Ron Porter" <ronporter@prodigy.net>
> >To: "Paul L Fisher" <sho@paul-fisher.com>, "SHOcago \(Topica\)"
> ><shocago@topica.com>, "SHOtimes \(Team.net\)"
><shotimes@autox.team.net>
> >Subject: [Shotimes] RE: OT - Selling a car
> >Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:45:04 -0400
> >
> >Michigan works the same way (I like it, actually).
> >
> >The lien is printed on the title. The lienholder can either sign off
> >the title releasing the lien, or can provide a document that releases
> >the lien.
> >
> >IMHO, this is easier to work with than having the lienholder
> >physically
>
> >holding the title.
> >
> >Ron Porter
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Paul L Fisher [mailto:sho@paul-fisher.com]
> >Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 9:32 AM
> >To: Steve Andriks; SHOcago (Topica); SHOtimes (Team.net); V8SHO
> >Subject: Re: OT - Selling a car
> >
> >
> >I actually have the title. WI is a goofy state. It just says on it
> >that
>
> >it has a lien. In talking to the state, the buyer would just present
> >to
>
> >the title office the title signed by me as well as a letter from the
> >CU
>
> >saying the lien has been satisfied.
> >
> >Paul L Fisher
> >'93 Ford Taurus SHO Crimson Clearcoat ATX 171K Build date 11/18/1992
> >- K&N Panel filter, Tokico Struts, Eibach Springs, Dynomax cat-back,
> >Holley 190lph fuel pump, FPS rebuilt ATX, 26mm rear sway bar,
> >Performance-Plus Stainless Steel Y-pipe, '96 brake upgrade,
> >Proportioning valve plugs, Delrin sub-frame bushings, Amsoil Series
> >2000 0W-30 oil, Amsoil Synthetic ATF. '00 Ford Explorer XLT 5.0L V8
> >AWD
>
> >Oxford White Clearcoat 41K Build date 11/19/1999
> >- Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30 oil
> >
> >SHO Club member http://www.shoclub.com/
> >Check out my web site http://www.paul-fisher.com/
> >Amsoil dealer http://www.paul-fisher.com/oil.htm
> >
> >Get $5 free from Paypal!
> >https://www.paypal.com/refer/pal=P3XEFFBFUFKN6
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Steve Andriks" <shogeezer@surfglobal.net>
> >To: "Paul L Fisher" <sho@paul-fisher.com>; "SHOcago (Topica)"
> ><shocago@topica.com>; "SHOtimes (Team.net)"
> ><shotimes@autox.team.net>; "V8SHO" <v8sho@v8sho.com>
> >Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 8:24 AM
> >Subject: Re: OT - Selling a car
> >
> >
> > > If your state motor vehicle office has a form that can be loosely
> >referred
> > > to as a "Transfer Of Title and Authorization For Payoff", you can
> > > sign
> >that
> > > to effectively transfer the title to the buyer once he/she
> > > receives the title from the credit union. The credit union is sent
> > > a COPY of that
> >form
> > > along with the payoff on the loan. The credit union then sends the
> > > title
> >to
> > > the buyer. Buyer then takes the title to the motor vehicle office
> > > along
> >with
> > > the original form I referred to above & your bill of sale, and
> > > presto,
> >title
> > > is issued to him/her. This is a generally accepted way of
> > > transferring titles "in absentia". Some states may differ slightly
> > > in their
> >procedure.
> > > But this is how dealers do it all the time. They face that
> > > situation
> >dozens
> > > of times a day. However, the buyer should get a copy of the title
> > > faxed
> >from
> > > the credit union to make sure that you are the only one on the
> >registration
> > > (if not, the co-owner also needs to sign the transfer form) and
> > > the
> >buyer
> > > should get assurance from the credit union of the payoff balance &
> > > if
> >they
> > > (get the name of the person who will handle the transaction) would
> > > send
> >the
> > > title to the buyer. Sometimes their policy might be to send the
> > > title to
> >the
> > > member & not get involved in any potential liability. Good luck
> > > Steve '97 TR
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Paul L Fisher" <sho@paul-fisher.com>
> > > To: "SHOcago (Topica)" <shocago@topica.com>; "SHOtimes (Team.net)"
> > > <shotimes@autox.team.net>; "V8SHO" <v8sho@v8sho.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 5:44 PM
> > > Subject: OT - Selling a car
> > >
> > >
> > > > I pretty much have my Explorer sold but am having a problem
> > > > getting an agreement with the buyer on title/payment transfer.
> > > >
> > > > The vehicle has a lien and the credit union isn't local. The
> > > > buyer
> >won't
> > > > give me the money unless I give him a clear title but the credit
> > > > union
> > > won't
> > > > give me the title unless it is paid off.
> > > >
> > > > One obvious solution is to get a loan to pay off the car and
> > > > then pay
> >off
> > > > the loan with the proceeds of the sale. The problem with that is
> > > > what happens if the buyer backs out? I would basically be stuck
> > > > with an
> > > unsecured
> > > > loan at the higher interest rate.
> > > >
> > > > I have thought of using an escrow service but once again, they
> > > > get
>
> > > > the
> > > money
> > > > from the buyer, get the title from the seller and then release
> > > > each to
> >the
> > > > other. They would have the title with the lien on it. Within 24
> > > > hours,
> >the
> > > > credit union will have issued a letter releasing the lien but
> > > > once
> >again,
> > > > the buyer doesn't trust that process.
> > > >
> > > > The other process that won't work is that we meet at the credit
> > > > union
> > > office
> > > > and do the transaction. The buyer and myself are in WI and the
> > > > credit
> > > union
> > > > is in MO.
> > > >
> > > > Do you guys have any other ideas?
> > > >
> > > > Paul L Fisher
> > > > '93 Ford Taurus SHO Crimson Clearcoat ATX 171K Build date
> > > > 11/18/1992
> > > > - K&N Panel filter, Tokico Struts, Eibach Springs, Dynomax
>cat-back,
> > > Holley
> > > > 190lph fuel pump, FPS rebuilt ATX, 26mm rear sway bar,
> >Performance-Plus
> > > > Stainless Steel Y-pipe, '96 brake upgrade, Proportioning valve
> > > > plugs,
> > > Delrin
> > > > sub-frame bushings, Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30 oil, Amsoil
> > > > Synthetic
> >ATF.
> > > > '00 Ford Explorer XLT 5.0L V8 AWD Oxford White Clearcoat 41K
> > > > Build
> >date
> > > > 11/19/1999
> > > > - Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30 oil
> > > >
> > > > SHO Club member http://www.shoclub.com/
> > > > Check out my web site http://www.paul-fisher.com/ Amsoil dealer
> > > > http://www.paul-fisher.com/oil.htm
> > > >
> > > > Get $5 free from Paypal!
> >https://www.paypal.com/refer/pal=P3XEFFBFUFKN6
> >_______________________________________________
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>
>
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