[Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
Mark Kelley
mkelley1@gt.rr.com
Sat, 19 Apr 2003 09:23:43 -0500
I don't recall that I ever "stuck it to Ford" for not building a V8 hi-po
sports sedan. I just jumped into speculation on the alternatives to
federalizing the Aussie 5.4 IF they imported the Falcon. You turned it into
an economics and marketing argument.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron Porter
> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 12:09 AM
> To: SHOtimes (Team.net)
> Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
>
>
> "What if" is one thing, sticking it to a car mfr for not making a
> 300-400 HP
> V8 sport sedan to compete with Europe's finest for $30K is sheer lunacy.
>
> Well, you should already have a good idea on what you can buy for
> $30K, and
> a cheap American M5 isn't part of the equation. A CV or a Marauder on a
> fire sale will be the only V8s under the $30K mark in a sedan. One of the
> Nissans or a GTP are probably the best performance in that price
> range. Or a
> WRX if the sizes suits you.
>
> Ron Porter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Mark Kelley
> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 11:03 PM
> To: Ron Porter; SHOtimes (Team.net)
> Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
>
>
> Actually it isn't an issue at all. It just some fun "what if"
> speculation.
> You seem to get bent all out shape when these kinds of topics
> come up. Why
> don't you lighten up a little. Maybe you wouldn't be "pissing off the
> SHOtimes masses" (again!!).
>
> Mark
>
> PS: I bought MY SHO new and very soon my spending range for a
> new car will
> be in the $30K range. Someone will be getting my money!
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ron Porter [mailto:ronporter@prodigy.net]
> > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 9:45 PM
> > To: Mark Kelley; SHOtimes (Team.net)
> > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> >
> >
> > It isn't an engine issue. Who would buy one? Relying on the enthusiast
> > market is a loser, unless you can sell a LOT of cars, or sell
> > less and price
> > them high. I see Ford doing neither.
> >
> > At the risk of (again!!) pissing off the SHOtimes masses....when these
> > topics come up, I ask the simple questions about (1) how many
> > people on this
> > list bought their SHOs new, and (2) how many people would buy a car like
> > this new?......and not "in 5 years when I win the
> Lotto".......but within
> > the next few months if it were available.
> >
> > This is the point, Talk is cheap, dollars need to be put on the table. I
> > don't see Ford spending any time worrying about
> building/importing another
> > high-performance sedan They are all over the news here in Detroit about
> > their cost-cutting efforts. They will only be worrying about building
> > vehicles that they can sell hundreds of thousands of.
> >
> > Ron Porter
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Mark Kelley
> > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 5:17 PM
> > To: Ron Porter; SHOtimes (Team.net)
> > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> >
> >
> > Here's a direct quote from Car and Driver:
> >
> > "Just one engine is available in the Aviator, a retuned version of the
> > aluminum 4.6-liter DOHC 32-valve V-8 that's sold in the Mustang Mach 1"
> >
> > What am I getting at? The question was whether Ford could use
> an existing
> > engine (such as the Lightning or Cobra engine) if they imported
> the Falcon
> > instead of the Aussie 5.4. My point is there are plenty of
> available V8s
> > comparable to the Aussie 5.4 that would only need re-certification for
> > Falcon (i.e. what GM did with the GTO/LS1). Ford has the same V8
> > in use in
> > several platforms so re-certification obviously isn't that big
> of a deal.
> > Whether it would be a cheap RWD sedan, I can't answer that. The
> > Falcon XR8
> > sells for the equivalent of $30K USD. To me, that sounds like a
> > bargain but
> > I don't know what the cost would be to import it.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron Porter
> > > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 11:56 AM
> > > To: Mark Kelley; SHOtimes (Team.net)
> > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > >
> > >
> > > IIRC, the Mach 1 is the standard GT motor with about 5 more
> > > HP......not the
> > > 302 HP DOHC motor.
> > >
> > > Anyway, Ford doesn't have anything else to put the DOHC 302 HP
> > 4.6 in to.
> > > Not really sure what you are getting at. There is not a platform
> > > for a cheap
> > > RWD sports sedan in Ford's stable. They have the LS, S-type, etc
> > > for the GT
> > > category with the nice 4.0 V8.
> > >
> > > Ron Porter
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mark Kelley [mailto:mkelley1@gt.rr.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 8:49 PM
> > > To: SHOtimes (Team.net); Ron Porter
> > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > >
> > >
> > > OK, Ron...how about the LS1? It's been used in the Camaro,
> > Firebird, and
> > > the GTO. How about the 302HP 4.6L 32V V8 in the Mustang Mach
> > I, Marauder,
> > > and Lincoln Aviator? It's been done before...it can be done again.
> > >
> > > As for the GT 5.4 engine...it's interesting how the specs of 500HP and
> > > 500LB/FT of torque match up so well with the specs for the next gen
> > > Lightning 5.4...coincidence?
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > > > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron Porter
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 7:28 PM
> > > > To: Mark Kelley; SHOtimes (Team.net)
> > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ???? What else is the LS6 certified for? Unless you are
> > talking the new
> > > > CTS-V. No big deal for cars like that, costing $50K+ for the
> > > Z06, probably
> > > > an easy $55-60K for the CTS-V.
> > > >
> > > > Haven't followed the GT engine development, but I'll bet the only
> > > > things in
> > > > common with the lightning motor are the 5.4 liters and the
> > > Eaton. I'm sure
> > > > that tuning is way different, which a much wider power band.
> > > >
> > > > Ron Porter
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Mark Kelley [mailto:mkelley1@gt.rr.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 7:27 PM
> > > > To: SHOtimes (Team.net); Ron Porter
> > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes, it is. There's a big write up in the current issue of Car
> > > and Driver
> > > > about how much of the design work for the GT version of
> > engine was doing
> > > > through virtual reality. There's big beautiful Eaton SC sitting
> > > > on top that
> > > > baby!
> > > >
> > > > It seems to me if GM can re-certify the Corvette LS6 for different
> > > > applications in a cost effective manner, Ford should be able
> > to do it as
> > > > well.
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > > > > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron Porter
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 5:31 PM
> > > > > To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Essentially the same" doesn't mean much. Each application must
> > > > certified,
> > > > > and for $100K+ fro the GTG, it could very well be certified
> > > > just for that
> > > > > package.
> > > > >
> > > > > IIRC, the GT motor isn't supercharged.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ron Porter
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: mkelley1@gt.rr.com [mailto:mkelley1@gt.rr.com]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 5:56 PM
> > > > > To: ronporter@prodigy.net; mkelley1@gt.rr.com;
> > shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > They're putting essentially the same engine into the Ford GT
> > > so it must
> > > > > also be federalized for passenger vehicles as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Original Message:
> > > > > -----------------
> > > > > From: Ron Porter ronporter@prodigy.net
> > > > > Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:52:04 -0400
> > > > > To: mkelley1@gt.rr.com, shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > IIRC, it's federalized for lower emissions in the pickup truck.
> > > > > Plus, it is
> > > > > a TALL engine with the blower on it. I don't see it
> fitting into any
> > > > > passenger car with out a serious hood scoop.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's also set up as a torque monster. I prefer engines with
> > > > more flexible
> > > > > rpm ranges.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ron Porter
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: mkelley1@gt.rr.com [mailto:mkelley1@gt.rr.com]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 4:34 PM
> > > > > To: ronporter@prodigy.net; dmckinnon@asttechlabs.com;
> > > > > shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There is an alternative: put in the Lightning engine. It
> > > makes more HP
> > > > > and is already federalized.
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course you still have the price issue. I agree with you
> > > on that one.
> > > > > If I had $60K to blow, I'm not sure I'd do it on a Falcon.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mark
> > > > >
> > > > > Original Message:
> > > > > -----------------
> > > > > From: Ron Porter ronporter@prodigy.net
> > > > > Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:35:27 -0400
> > > > > To: dmckinnon@asttechlabs.com, shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Can't really tell from the pix, as the hoodline may be taller on
> > > > > the Falcon
> > > > > than the CV/GM. I have read that the 5.4 will not fit the CV/GM,
> > > > > or even the
> > > > > Town Car, for that matter.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bring the Falcon here????? Well, I guess it's time for me to
> > > put on my
> > > > > "Voice Of Doom" t-shirt (a very nice Carhart shirt that Dave
> > > > > Garber had made
> > > > > up, BTW!!) that I got after being on the V8 list for too long.
> > > > > The car/motor
> > > > > does not meet EPA emissions/mileage/crash regs. The motor is
> > > > close to the
> > > > > 320 HP Cobra motor (yeah, some more torque from the 5.4,
> > though), and
> > > > > Federalizing it will drop it to at least 320 HP. Plus, the car
> > > > > weighs almost
> > > > > 4,000 lbs.....damn close to Marauder weight.
> > > > >
> > > > > The direct conversion from Australian $$$ to US $$$ prices it
> > > > at $50,130.
> > > > > Add in the EPA and other Federalized stuff, and that's a $60K+
> > > > car. Sorry,
> > > > > there are other cars on the market for that kinda $$$
> that would be
> > > > > preferable........and not named a Falcon!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Ron Porter
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > > > > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Don
> > McKinnon (AST)
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:42 PM
> > > > > To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I pretty sure that it can fit! The Australian Ford Falcon XR8
> > > > > gets the DOHC
> > > > > 5.4l motor, It's deck is not bigger than the Marauder/CV, see a
> > > > > good pix of
> > > > > the car here
> > > > > http://www.fantasycars.com/derek/cars/2003_ford_ba_falcon_xr8.html
> > > > > (why is
> > > > > it every time I see a pix of this car I drool!)
> > > > >
> > > > > A 6sp tranny would help with the EPA just like it does/did on the
> > > > > New Cobra,
> > > > > and C5, CST-V and F-body GM cars.
> > > > >
> > > > > Don McKinnon
> > > > > 95 MTX - White/Mocha 91k miles
> > > > > Stage 1 Power Package with Stage 1cams
> > > > > Canyon Carver Road/Race Suspension
> > > > > Quaife & HiRevs Competition Clutch
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > > > > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron Porter
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 12:34 PM
> > > > > To: BJamesjr@aol.com; shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Would have been nice, except I'm sure it does not fit. Even a
> > > > stock 5.4 is
> > > > > very tall, and IIRC the stock 5.4 won't fit in the CV/GM body.
> > > > >
> > > > > Besides, doesn't the Lightning motor qualify under easier
> > > > > emissions/mileage
> > > > > stds than regular passenger engines?
> > > > >
> > > > > Ron Porter
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > > > > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of
> BJamesjr@aol.com
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:23 AM
> > > > > To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > The S/C Cobra motor in the Marauder would have
> > > > > > sold every one that they could build.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, or even the motor out of the Lightning pickup.
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > > >
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