[Shotimes] (OT) Marauder

Sat, 19 Apr 2003 08:22:08 -0400

You are right, HOWEVER, marketing has something to do with it also.  If Ford
had a marketing blitz showing a teenager (or young adult) hauling around the
UCLA cheerleaders or blowing the doors off a late model Camaro at the drags,
the Marauder would have sold (to the 30-50 married male crowd).  The only
other way that type of car would have sold is if it was an option package
costing $1500 or less, and it kicked ass.  You never saw an ad for an
Integra Type R, however it only cost the same as a GSR and it performed
about 150% better, they lined-up to buy one paying as much as $5K above
sticker..

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Porter" <ronporter@prodigy.net>
To: "Mark Kelley" <mkelley1@gt.rr.com>; "SHOtimes (Team.net)"
<SHOtimes@autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 10:45 PM
Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder

> It isn't an engine issue. Who would buy one? Relying on the enthusiast
> market is a loser, unless you can sell a LOT of cars, or sell less and
price
> them high. I see Ford doing neither.
>
> At the risk of (again!!) pissing off the SHOtimes masses....when these
> topics come up, I ask the simple questions about (1) how many people on
this
> list bought their SHOs new, and (2) how many people would buy a car like
> this new?......and not "in 5 years when I win the Lotto".......but within
> the next few months if it were available.
>
> This is the point, Talk is cheap, dollars need to be put on the table. I
> don't see Ford spending any time worrying about building/importing another
> high-performance sedan They are all over the news here in Detroit about
> their cost-cutting efforts. They will only be worrying about building
> vehicles that they can sell hundreds of thousands of.
>
> Ron Porter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Mark Kelley
> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 5:17 PM
> To: Ron Porter; SHOtimes (Team.net)
> Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
>
>
> Here's a direct quote from Car and Driver:
>
> "Just one engine is available in the Aviator, a retuned version of the
> aluminum 4.6-liter DOHC 32-valve V-8 that's sold in the Mustang Mach 1"
>
> What am I getting at?  The question was whether Ford could use an existing
> engine (such as the Lightning or Cobra engine) if they imported the Falcon
> instead of the Aussie 5.4.  My point is there are plenty of available V8s
> comparable to the Aussie 5.4 that would only need re-certification for
> Falcon (i.e. what GM did with the GTO/LS1).  Ford has the same V8 in use
in
> several platforms so re-certification obviously isn't that big of a deal.
> Whether it would be a cheap RWD sedan, I can't answer that.  The Falcon
XR8
> sells for the equivalent of $30K USD.  To me, that sounds like a bargain
but
> I don't know what the cost would be to import it.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron Porter
> > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 11:56 AM
> > To: Mark Kelley; SHOtimes (Team.net)
> > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> >
> >
> > IIRC, the Mach 1 is the standard GT motor with about 5 more
> > HP......not the
> > 302 HP DOHC motor.
> >
> > Anyway, Ford doesn't have anything else to put the DOHC 302 HP 4.6 in
to.
> > Not really sure what you are getting at. There is not a platform
> > for a cheap
> > RWD sports sedan in Ford's stable. They have the LS, S-type, etc
> > for the GT
> > category with the nice 4.0 V8.
> >
> > Ron Porter
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Kelley [mailto:mkelley1@gt.rr.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 8:49 PM
> > To: SHOtimes (Team.net); Ron Porter
> > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> >
> >
> > OK, Ron...how about the LS1?  It's been used in the Camaro, Firebird,
and
> > the GTO.  How about the 302HP 4.6L 32V V8 in the Mustang Mach I,
Marauder,
> > and Lincoln Aviator? It's been done before...it can be done again.
> >
> > As for the GT 5.4 engine...it's interesting how the specs of 500HP and
> > 500LB/FT of torque match up so well with the specs for the next gen
> > Lightning 5.4...coincidence?
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron Porter
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 7:28 PM
> > > To: Mark Kelley; SHOtimes (Team.net)
> > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > >
> > >
> > > ???? What else is the LS6 certified for? Unless you are talking the
new
> > > CTS-V. No big deal for cars like that, costing $50K+ for the
> > Z06, probably
> > > an easy $55-60K for the CTS-V.
> > >
> > > Haven't followed the GT engine development, but I'll bet the only
> > > things in
> > > common with the lightning motor are the 5.4 liters and the
> > Eaton. I'm sure
> > > that tuning is way different, which a much wider power band.
> > >
> > > Ron Porter
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mark Kelley [mailto:mkelley1@gt.rr.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 7:27 PM
> > > To: SHOtimes (Team.net); Ron Porter
> > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, it is.  There's a big write up in the current issue of Car
> > and Driver
> > > about how much of the design work for the GT version of engine was
doing
> > > through virtual reality.  There's big beautiful Eaton SC sitting
> > > on top that
> > > baby!
> > >
> > > It seems to me if GM can re-certify the Corvette LS6 for different
> > > applications in a cost effective manner, Ford should be able to do it
as
> > > well.
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > > > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron Porter
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 5:31 PM
> > > > To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Essentially the same" doesn't mean much. Each application must
> > > certified,
> > > > and for $100K+ fro the GTG, it could very well be certified
> > > just for that
> > > > package.
> > > >
> > > > IIRC, the GT motor isn't supercharged.
> > > >
> > > > Ron Porter
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: mkelley1@gt.rr.com [mailto:mkelley1@gt.rr.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 5:56 PM
> > > > To: ronporter@prodigy.net; mkelley1@gt.rr.com;
shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > They're putting essentially the same engine into the Ford GT
> > so it must
> > > > also be federalized for passenger vehicles as well.
> > > >
> > > > Original Message:
> > > > -----------------
> > > > From: Ron Porter ronporter@prodigy.net
> > > > Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:52:04 -0400
> > > > To: mkelley1@gt.rr.com, shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > IIRC, it's federalized for lower emissions in the pickup truck.
> > > > Plus, it is
> > > > a TALL engine with the blower on it. I don't see it fitting into any
> > > > passenger car with out a serious hood scoop.
> > > >
> > > > It's also set up as a torque monster. I prefer engines with
> > > more flexible
> > > > rpm ranges.
> > > >
> > > > Ron Porter
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: mkelley1@gt.rr.com [mailto:mkelley1@gt.rr.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 4:34 PM
> > > > To: ronporter@prodigy.net; dmckinnon@asttechlabs.com;
> > > > shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > There is an alternative:  put in the Lightning engine.  It
> > makes more HP
> > > > and is already federalized.
> > > >
> > > > Of course you still have the price issue.  I agree with you
> > on that one.
> > > > If I had $60K to blow, I'm not sure I'd do it on a Falcon.
> > > >
> > > > Mark
> > > >
> > > > Original Message:
> > > > -----------------
> > > > From: Ron Porter ronporter@prodigy.net
> > > > Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:35:27 -0400
> > > > To: dmckinnon@asttechlabs.com, shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Can't really tell from the pix, as the hoodline may be taller on
> > > > the Falcon
> > > > than the CV/GM. I have read that the 5.4 will not fit the CV/GM,
> > > > or even the
> > > > Town Car, for that matter.
> > > >
> > > > Bring the Falcon here?????  Well, I guess it's time for me to
> > put on my
> > > > "Voice Of Doom" t-shirt (a very nice Carhart shirt that Dave
> > > > Garber had made
> > > > up, BTW!!) that I got after being on the V8 list for too long.
> > > > The car/motor
> > > > does not meet EPA emissions/mileage/crash regs. The motor is
> > > close to the
> > > > 320 HP Cobra motor (yeah, some more torque from the 5.4, though),
and
> > > > Federalizing it will drop it to at least 320 HP. Plus, the car
> > > > weighs almost
> > > > 4,000 lbs.....damn close to Marauder weight.
> > > >
> > > > The direct conversion from Australian $$$ to US $$$ prices it
> > > at $50,130.
> > > > Add in the EPA and other Federalized stuff, and that's a $60K+
> > > car. Sorry,
> > > > there are other cars on the market for that kinda $$$ that would be
> > > > preferable........and not named a Falcon!!
> > > >
> > > > Ron Porter
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > > > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Don McKinnon
(AST)
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:42 PM
> > > > To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I pretty sure that it can fit! The Australian Ford Falcon XR8
> > > > gets the DOHC
> > > > 5.4l motor, It's deck is not bigger than the Marauder/CV, see a
> > > > good pix of
> > > > the car here
> > > > http://www.fantasycars.com/derek/cars/2003_ford_ba_falcon_xr8.html
> > > >   (why is
> > > > it every time I see a pix of this car I drool!)
> > > >
> > > > A 6sp tranny would help with the EPA just like it does/did on the
> > > > New Cobra,
> > > > and C5, CST-V and F-body GM cars.
> > > >
> > > > Don McKinnon
> > > > 95 MTX - White/Mocha 91k miles
> > > > Stage 1 Power Package with Stage 1cams
> > > > Canyon Carver Road/Race Suspension
> > > > Quaife & HiRevs Competition Clutch
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > > > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron Porter
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 12:34 PM
> > > > To: BJamesjr@aol.com; shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Would have been nice, except I'm sure it does not fit. Even a
> > > stock 5.4 is
> > > > very tall, and IIRC the stock 5.4 won't fit in the CV/GM body.
> > > >
> > > > Besides, doesn't the Lightning motor qualify under easier
> > > > emissions/mileage
> > > > stds than regular passenger engines?
> > > >
> > > > Ron Porter
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > > > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of BJamesjr@aol.com
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:23 AM
> > > > To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > Subject: Re: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > The S/C Cobra motor in the Marauder would have
> > > > > sold every one that they could build.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, or even the motor out of the Lightning pickup.
> > > > _______________________________________________
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