[Shotimes] Interesting...porting the intake

[Steve Tatro]

I agree.  Not that Neno is an asshole, I don't know him personally.
Although I do recall the requests for donations for his first SHO ;^)

Regardless, the "American" cars may feel nicer when brand new than the
imports.  For example, I have no qualms regarding the fit and finish of any
new Taurus, Grand Prix, Explorer, or even 300M.  But look at how many of us
complain of the noises, squeaks, creaks, etc. from our 10-year old Taurii.
Mine's not ancient by any stretch, having a mere 169k miles, but the
interior is far from high quality.

My next door neighbor has a '92 Maxima with 260k miles.  I drove the car
around, and it's still very solid.  And the owner has no idea how to
properly maintain a car.  I've helped him do a couple of things, and we've
used AutoZone or NAPA parts, but haven't noticed any extravagant costs
associated.  $30-40 per rotor, $50 for a decent set of pads, $100 for a
rebuilt starter, etc.  Solid, solid car.  Hell, it still has the original
clutch!

My sister drives around an old Civic.  Honda's absolute cheapest car.  You
get in, close the door, and hear a solid latch.  Feels like new.  You drive
down the road, and the sunroof doesn't rattle.  The dash doesn't squeak.
Nothing has broken either inside or outside of the car.  Only has 100k
miles, but I have faith that it will feel nearly as solid when it has 200k.

These are far from the best examples.  We haven't even touched on my
neighbor's high-mile Infinity.  Feels brand new.  Or my step-mother-in-law's
150k mile 5-series BMW.

I will mention the Pontiac Sunfire my wife used to drive.  The car was 3
years old and had 35k miles when we finally got rid of it.  Power windows
only worked sometimes, there was an exhaust rattle at idle, and the engine
sounded odd at times.

How about my other neighbor's '95 Corvette?  Leaky t-tops, shaky dash,
wobbly driver's seat (not just the hold-down bolts), etc.

God, I could go on and on.  Import badge cars are made better than
comparably priced "American" cars, no doubt.

Oh, and if you do spend the money to get a "quality" American car, such as a
Cadillac?  The part costs are as outrageous as any import I've ever seen.
My mom drove a Sedan DeVille for quite a few years.  A $400 starter, $450
radiator, and $800 worth of brakes later and she swore to never buy one
again.

I recently had a similar discussion with my wife.  The replacement for the
Isuzu Rodeo she currently drives (which still feels like new and has been
great to own) will either be an Explorer or a Pilot.  The Honda is cheaper
(comparably equipped), has more power (V6 vs. V6), gets better mileage, will
obviously hold its value better, and will feel like new a lot longer than
the Ford.

I'll shut up now, before Ron slings the f-word at me!

Steve Tatro
Red/Black '93 with 169k miles
Cincinnati, Ohio


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Porter" <ronporter@prodigy.net>
To: "'Neno Albert'" <neno@sbcglobal.net>; "'Christian Andretta'"
<passport@optonline.net>; <shotimes@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 6:43 PM
Subject: RE: [Shotimes] Interesting...porting the intake


> Well, to keep my answer short and sweet.
>
> You are an ignorant a-hole that has never spent any time with a foreign
> vehicle.
>
> If you think that a American-built vehicle is still anywhere NEAR the
> quality of an import, you are clueless.
>
> Chris had it right.....buy the best vehicle for your money. If it means
that
> a sub-100 IQ 8th-grade dropout who is a UAW member who loses his $25/hour
> job (plus another $10/hour in benefits) screwing on bumpers, tough feces.
>
> Ron Porter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]
> On Behalf Of Neno Albert
> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 6:24 PM
> To: Christian Andretta; shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [Shotimes] Interesting...porting the intake
>
>
> Hmm... To say American cars are inferior is totally against my beliefs.
> There is absolutely
> NOTHING that comes to my mind to make me feel any import is superior to
> American cars. For those
> who go out of their way to buy anything "imported" (in some cases only by
> name and profit) is
> extremely irritating in one very important and endlessly overlooked
> manner... Not only are imports
> normally a decent amount of cash over something equivalant in American
> production, but their
> maintenance is extremely pricey and most importantly, I definitely do NOT
> favor working on the
> damn things! That said, let me also add that something that is supposedly
a
> import "budget" car
> actually can cost you an arm and a leg! For example, we almost always bump
> into the same problem
> with numerous Jap vehicles... What would that problem be, you ask?
something
> as simple as a ROTOR,
> as in the brakes, is a dealer only item. More to  top that cake off is
that
> $158 dollar tab for a
> rotor on a car that has the cheapest looks, feel, and comfort I've ever
> experienced in my entire
> life.
>
> I also am not a avid fan of BMWs, Mercedes, Jaguars, Volvos, or Saabs. Not
> only does their stupid
> stud-lug design cause the tire to literally fall on you (does anyone know
> the logical behind this
> design?!?) but it adds to the cost of someone accidently stripping out one
> of those stupid things
> or better yet, snapping the head clean off of it! To add more to that, try
> doing an alignment on a
> Mercedes without contacting a dealer. Did you know that they do NOT list
the
> actual vehicles as
> they are badged on the body? You have to know all this fancy mumbo-jumbo
> like the engine size, the
> type of chassis, wheel size, yadda yadda yadda. In other words, the
> make/model listing is coded so
> you can't tell what's what! I don't know if they did this to prevent any
> tech to successfully
> align their cars or what. The best, though, is Jaguars rear adjustments..
> You have to shim the
> axles(!!) for camber adjustments! What the HELL is wrong with these
people?!
>
> As much of a fool I am for saying that I'd never own a vehicle I can't
> successfully repair myself,
> realize that tasks like this would cost quite a few hundreds... For an
> Alignment, that is. Brake
> jobs can run into the thousands. I'm sorry, but maybe I'm not seeing the
> relationship between, ooh
> I don't know, Taurus' and $60k Bimmers?? You can keep your laser keys and
> clumpy ride (yes, I said
> clumpy. I hate the ride of a bimmer with 18"s and sport suspension and
some
> lame seats that just
> add to the event of your spin feeling like someone or something is trying
to
> tap into it) and
> I'll stick to a Taurus that doesn't seem to drain my wallet THAT much.
>
> Neno - Feeling less American already witha  Yamaha motor rather then a
460BB
> :(
>
> --- Christian Andretta <passport@optonline.net> wrote:
> > Buy the best product that you can afford and meets your needs regardless
> of
> > where it is manufactured.  Yes, I think it is important to support the
> > American worker and the companies they work for but when they become
> > complacent and build an inferior product there is no reason to buy
> American.
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