[Shotimes] End links

Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:50:55 -0500

Sway bar mounting is a minor point in suspension setups......and track
performance. The point is that an experienced driver in a bone-stock SHO
will still drive way from a highly modded car with all of the "toys".

IMHO, though, Thunderhill may work better for the ATX folks, as the lousy
tranny characteristics may not be the hindrance that they are in lower-speed
corners (just a guess on my part).

Ron Porter

-----Original Message-----
From: Kirk Doucette [mailto:Kirk.doucette@verizon.net] 
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 6:09 PM
To: Ron Porter; 'SHOTIMES'
Subject: RE: [Shotimes] End links

Well we will just have to see in California :) you wont have any experienced
instructors slowing you down. LOL

IMO. Don't Knock something until you try it, you might like it.

Kirk J Doucette
NESHOC President
Stormtrooper-97 White

-----Original Message-----
From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Ron Porter
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 5:46 PM
To: 'SHOTIMES'
Subject: RE: [Shotimes] End links

Yes, I understand that with short-enough links, the links can "pull" the
body down, but this is NOT a desirable way to mount the bars, as you have
them under tension at rest.

Adjustable endlinks can jack weight if you preload from side-to-side, but
again this is a band-aid way of moving weight around, and it makes the bars
work differently between left and right turns.

For left-turn-only NASCAR that's fine.....for the real word, not desirable
IMHO.

Ron Porter

-----Original Message-----
From: Kirk Doucette [mailto:Kirk.doucette@verizon.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 5:36 PM
To: Ron Porter; 'SHOTIMES'
Subject: RE: [Shotimes] End links

Pile all you want.. I still cant explain it worth a dam but it does happen
on a Taurus. :)

My comment in my response to Dons email was just a General comment about
people stating that the 26 in all Gens is too stiff and causes the rear end
to come around. Wasn't directed at you directly Don..

Reason this happens too is that the bar is not wide (from eyelet to eyelet)
ALL endlinks sit at an angle, the long ones or stock lets the bar relax a
bit and the eyelets face down, to have the "bar" work correctly the eyelets
should be flat, the smaller endlinks do that, they pull on the bar and it
looses some travel but sits flat, from tightening up the bar it will pull
the car down.

Plus with the adjustable front and rear endlinks you can do all kinds of
preloading, changing the weight transfer of the car and many things..

Kirk J Doucette
NESHOC President
Stormtrooper-97 White

-----Original Message-----
From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Ron Porter
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 4:47 PM
To: 'SHOTIMES'
Subject: RE: [Shotimes] End links

As long as we are piling on Kirk!!!!   ;-)

With respect to the comments of other non-SHO-experienced folks, it seems
that every car mfr has a different way of mounting sway bars. In the Taurus
setup, no ride-height differences can be done by the mounting design, but
there are other cars that seem to mount the bar under tension, and/or to
different parts of the body or suspension, so it is very possible that other
cars & applications could very well alter the ride height.

It would not at all surprise me that other cars, and also race-car setups,
could alter the ride height with the sway bar mounting, but it ain't gonna
happen with a Taurus.

Ron Porter

-----Original Message-----
From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of Donald Mallinson
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 4:29 PM
To: SHOTIMES
Subject: Re: [Shotimes] End links

Kirk,

I "know" suspension enough to know that a sway bar is not in
tension when a car sits flat,  It also rides up and down
without any tension (other than that applied by the friction
or flex of the bushings) when the car suspension moves with
both wheels on that axle moving at the same time.  The only
time the bars flexibility comes into play is when the wheels
move in different directions or different levels.  This is
for any street car, I can't speak for all racing
suspensions, but even there, the vast majority of sway bars
have NO tension on them except in corners or bumps.  Sure
you can MAKE the bar have tension, but in the example given,
it is a street car.

Chances are any differences you see in ride height after
putting in shorter links are caused by the bushing being in
tension.  All suspension bushings should be installed with
the component in the same position as when the car sits
static after the work is done.  This way they are not in
tension and likely to fail early.

Thus if you put in a shorter link, and then just sit the car
back down, the bushings on the bar are now in tension
(unless the bushings allow slip, and stock bushings usually
don't) and THAT may effect the ride height, but unless the
new setup is just too short to reach the two mounting points
without bending something, there is no other way it can
effect ride height.  Once you re-set the bushings so they
are not in tension, there should be zero effect on ride height.

Also, I have no idea what your 26mm bar comment was about, I
said nothing about it, didn't read that from anyone else.
What was that about?

I am sure glad you got to hang with a lot of circle track
people, but some of us also have a pretty good education
from racers and manufacturers about suspension.  Basics are
basics though, dirt or blacktop.

Don Mallinson

Kirk Doucette wrote:

> The stock location of the bar is no where near ideal. The bar sits at an
> angle for ride comfort - NOT handling.. Speak to anyone that "knows"
> suspension and they will say the same thing.. Or go look at any Circle
track
> car or even drag car. ALL bars must sit flat for handling.
>
> Kirk J Doucette
> NESHOC President
> Stormtrooper-97 White
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Donald Mallinson
> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 9:35 AM
> To: DTNesbit@ftc-i.net
> Cc: SHOTIMES
> Subject: Re: [Shotimes] End links
>
> Obviously the alignment of the bar will be off, the bar will
> be at an angle, slightly effecting the tension that the bar
> has, making it more in one direction and less in another.
>
> If the re-aligned bar doesn't hit anything when the
> suspension moves, it shouldn't be a big deal, just not ideal.
>
> Don Mallinson
>
> DTNesbit@ftc-i.net wrote:
>
>
>> What will happen if I use stabilizer bar end links on the rear of my 91
>
> that
>
>>are about an inch shorter than the OEM links?  TIA.
>>David
>>94ATX&91
>>_______________________________________________
>>Shotimes mailing list
>>Shotimes@autox.team.net
>>http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes
>>
>>.
>
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> .
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