[Shotimes] End links

Thu, 18 Dec 2003 17:50:27 -0600

This is a common way to adjust stiffness on a bar and actually is the way
SHO Shop had designed their "adjustable" rear bars.  The adjustment was made
by tilting the sway bar up and using a second eyelet set further back.

The "performance" endlink kits I sell on the site are all 1.5 inches shorter
and made of 3/8ths inch thick steel.  Everyone that has made the swap that
offered their feedback, loved the change.

I'm not sure how one could think that the 26mm bar made the car too tight.
It's a matter of the car the bar is on and the rest of the suspension that
works with the bar.  Sure, if you toss the 26 on a car with a small front
sway var and no other suspension mods, it might make it a little tail happy,
but on the same token, if you're the type of person that's going to put that
bar on an otherwise stock car, you might have bigger problems to be
concerned about.

When I had the 95, I had SHO Shop F & R STBS, Tokicos, 24/ 26mm sway bars,
TPR bushings all around, police strut mounts, 225/ 50 tires, etc.  I would
consider that a moderately stiff setup, and the car would dial in with just
a touch of oversteer, nothing that would be considered unpredictable
however.

~ Mike

Midwest SHO
www.midwestsho.com
Sales@Midwestsho.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Doucette" <Kirk.doucette@verizon.net>
To: "Ron Porter" <ronporter@prodigy.net>; "'SHOTIMES'"
<Shotimes@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 4:36 PM
Subject: RE: [Shotimes] End links

> Pile all you want.. I still cant explain it worth a dam but it does happen
> on a Taurus. :)
>
> My comment in my response to Dons email was just a General comment about
> people stating that the 26 in all Gens is too stiff and causes the rear
end
> to come around. Wasn't directed at you directly Don..
>
> Reason this happens too is that the bar is not wide (from eyelet to
eyelet)
> ALL endlinks sit at an angle, the long ones or stock lets the bar relax a
> bit and the eyelets face down, to have the "bar" work correctly the
eyelets
> should be flat, the smaller endlinks do that, they pull on the bar and it
> looses some travel but sits flat, from tightening up the bar it will pull
> the car down.
>
> Plus with the adjustable front and rear endlinks you can do all kinds of
> preloading, changing the weight transfer of the car and many things..
>
> Kirk J Doucette
> NESHOC President
> Stormtrooper-97 White
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Ron Porter
> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 4:47 PM
> To: 'SHOTIMES'
> Subject: RE: [Shotimes] End links
>
> As long as we are piling on Kirk!!!!   ;-)
>
> With respect to the comments of other non-SHO-experienced folks, it seems
> that every car mfr has a different way of mounting sway bars. In the
Taurus
> setup, no ride-height differences can be done by the mounting design, but
> there are other cars that seem to mount the bar under tension, and/or to
> different parts of the body or suspension, so it is very possible that
other
> cars & applications could very well alter the ride height.
>
> It would not at all surprise me that other cars, and also race-car setups,
> could alter the ride height with the sway bar mounting, but it ain't gonna
> happen with a Taurus.
>
> Ron Porter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]
> On Behalf Of Donald Mallinson
> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 4:29 PM
> To: SHOTIMES
> Subject: Re: [Shotimes] End links
>
>
> Kirk,
>
> I "know" suspension enough to know that a sway bar is not in
> tension when a car sits flat,  It also rides up and down
> without any tension (other than that applied by the friction
> or flex of the bushings) when the car suspension moves with
> both wheels on that axle moving at the same time.  The only
> time the bars flexibility comes into play is when the wheels
> move in different directions or different levels.  This is
> for any street car, I can't speak for all racing
> suspensions, but even there, the vast majority of sway bars
> have NO tension on them except in corners or bumps.  Sure
> you can MAKE the bar have tension, but in the example given,
> it is a street car.
>
> Chances are any differences you see in ride height after
> putting in shorter links are caused by the bushing being in
> tension.  All suspension bushings should be installed with
> the component in the same position as when the car sits
> static after the work is done.  This way they are not in
> tension and likely to fail early.
>
> Thus if you put in a shorter link, and then just sit the car
> back down, the bushings on the bar are now in tension
> (unless the bushings allow slip, and stock bushings usually
> don't) and THAT may effect the ride height, but unless the
> new setup is just too short to reach the two mounting points
> without bending something, there is no other way it can
> effect ride height.  Once you re-set the bushings so they
> are not in tension, there should be zero effect on ride height.
>
> Also, I have no idea what your 26mm bar comment was about, I
> said nothing about it, didn't read that from anyone else.
> What was that about?
>
> I am sure glad you got to hang with a lot of circle track
> people, but some of us also have a pretty good education
> from racers and manufacturers about suspension.  Basics are
> basics though, dirt or blacktop.
>
> Don Mallinson
>
> Kirk Doucette wrote:
>
> > The stock location of the bar is no where near ideal. The bar sits at an
> > angle for ride comfort - NOT handling.. Speak to anyone that "knows"
> > suspension and they will say the same thing.. Or go look at any Circle
> track
> > car or even drag car. ALL bars must sit flat for handling.
> >
> > Kirk J Doucette
> > NESHOC President
> > Stormtrooper-97 White
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On
> > Behalf Of Donald Mallinson
> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 9:35 AM
> > To: DTNesbit@ftc-i.net
> > Cc: SHOTIMES
> > Subject: Re: [Shotimes] End links
> >
> > Obviously the alignment of the bar will be off, the bar will
> > be at an angle, slightly effecting the tension that the bar
> > has, making it more in one direction and less in another.
> >
> > If the re-aligned bar doesn't hit anything when the
> > suspension moves, it shouldn't be a big deal, just not ideal.
> >
> > Don Mallinson
> >
> > DTNesbit@ftc-i.net wrote:
> >
> >
> >> What will happen if I use stabilizer bar end links on the rear of my 91
> >
> > that
> >
> >>are about an inch shorter than the OEM links?  TIA.
> >>David
> >>94ATX&91
> >>_______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>.
> >
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> > .
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