[Shotimes] RE: 22/25 Sway Bar Combination

[Shylo McKinsey]

Give me some decent odds and I'll collect...

Shylo McKinsey

'91 White MTX

--- Kirk  Doucette <Kirk.doucette@verizon.net> wrote:
> OHH OHH Im in on this one! Who's collecting the
> Money?
> 
> Kirk J Doucette
> NESHOC President
> Stormtrooper-97 White
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Ron Porter
> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 9:19 PM
> To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [Shotimes] RE: 22/25 Sway Bar
> Combination
> 
> I said that I couldn't feel the difference on the
> street......and I said
> that if I feel anything, it will be on the track.
> 
> I have done a few track events, and I have been able
> to fumble my way around
> the track on occasion......
> 
> My point....which I was actually being KIND
> about.....is that many people on
> this list are absolutely full of crapola when they
> claim that the SHO is an
> understeering PIG, and that they notice "wonderful"
> changes in handling when
> they change a bar by 2mm. Now, they are folks that
> have never done a track
> or autocross, and my first...second...third thought
> is to basically tell
> them that they are ignorant f**ks who can't drive,
> and changing bars is a
> waste of money that would be better spent on a
> driving school with their
> STOCK SHO.....which has far more ability in STOCK
> form than their driving
> skills.
> 
> But, on that particular day, I was trying to be
> nice.
> 
> Nonetheless, a 2mm bar change has NO discernible
> difference on the
> street...on my streets, anyway, where the most
> interesting road are the
> on/off ramps on the Interstate.
> 
> If you have a track car set up with a razor-sharp
> situation, sure....you
> will feel it. A 3,300-3,500 # car with rubber
> bushings, 1-3-5 passengers,
> 0-200 #s in the trunk, varying road composition and
> surface quality, 1-18
> gallons of gas in the tank, a 20-degree difference
> since the last time the
> tire pressure was checked, etc, etc means that a 2mm
> bar difference doesn't
> mean a flying f**k in handling feel between today
> and yesterday.
> 
> Come out to the CA Convention, let's see how a 7X
> SCCA Camp fares with the
> rest of us. And I trust this is a 7X SCCA champ on
> the track, and not around
> the cones in a parking lot.
> 
> As I and another 10,000 or so folks have
> stated.....sway bar setups for the
> street & track bear NO relation to what is needed in
> autocross. If you are a
> 7X autocross champ, just get outta the damn way at
> Thunderhill!!
> 
> Ron Porter
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leigh Smith [mailto:leighsm@comcast.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 8:09 PM
> To: Ron Porter; shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Shotimes] RE: 22/25 Sway Bar
> Combination
> 
> 
> Frankly Ron;
> IMNSHO that is exactly what I said, that the
> cornering gains would not
> amount to jack...(probably) and yet the difference
> in ride on the street was
> very noticeable.
> The need for a 26mm bar on the street is all in the
> drivers head.
> And if you can't feel the difference of 2mm on a
> sway bar, you better get
> off the race track 'cause that is a 20% force
> difference.
> If you can't feel that, you'll either wind up in the
> weeds or with your
> doors blown off.
> (Gauntlet thrown)
> Challenge anyone?
> Leigh
> 
> P.S.
> Make sure you know who you're messing with, before
> you put your mouth into
> gear....
> (7 x Divisional SCCA Champion)
> 
> Yah I'm testy today!
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Porter" <ronporter@prodigy.net>
> To: <shotimes@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 1:39 AM
> Subject: [Shotimes] RE: 22/25 Sway Bar Combination
> 
> 
> > Frankly, IMNSHO, folks who claim that they feel a
> 2mm bar change
> difference
> > on the street are the same folks that will swear
> that more intake noise
> > gives them more HP!!
> >
> > I have a few constant-radius (man, that is
> unusual!!) off-ramps, and I
> never
> > felt a difference going from the stock bamboo
> sticks on my '95 to the
> 224/26
> > setup, nor did I feel a difference when I went
> from the stock 24/23 setup
> on
> > this '94 to the 24/26 setup. Yeah, the stiffer
> feel over bumps shows up,
> but
> > cornering gains just ain't there.
> >
> > Both cars had Eibachs. The '95 with Konis/AL
> SFBs/H-brace, this '94 with
> > Tokicos/ SFCs/AL SFBs. Tires mattered more than
> anything.
> >
> > The track difference may matter, as I'll find out
> at Thunderhill, but I
> > doubt that the street stuff will show the 24-to-22
> difference.
> >
> > 24/26 worked fine on the stock '89-'90s, and it
> has worked on Gen 2s for
> me.
> > It will be no BFD for them to drop in the 22mm
> during the clutch job, so
> > we'll see.
> >
> > Ron Porter
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Leigh Smith [mailto:leighsm@comcast.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 11:04 PM
> > To: Ron Porter; shotimes@autox.team.net
> > Subject: Re: 22/25 Sway Bar Combination
> >
> >
> > Ron;
> > You may want to try the 22/25 mm bar setup for the
> street. The cop car
> rear
> > bar setup is only roughly 20% softer in roll than
> the 24/26 bar setup. It
> > got rid of what I considered an annoyingly stiff
> rear bar. It had too much
> > wheel hop / head snap on certain conditions &
> bumps. Those kind of forces
> > upset the handling of the car. This is a very
> smooth ride & handling
> setup,
> > almost BMW like, and will absorb bumps in a bumpy
> turn without upsetting
> the
> > car. It has the exact same handling balance as the
> '89 24/26 bar setup or
> > the stock 94 20/20 bar setup. More than enough bar
> for the street, or
> > somewhat illegal speeds. Feels stiff enough for
> track use, and is more
> > compliant / supple at the same time. The cop car
> bar can be hard to find
> > though.
> > Trackwise whether it would be faster or slower, I
> can't say. You would
> have
> > to do a back to back test. I would bet on the
> increased smoothness and
> > increased driver confidence winning out over the
> older more skittish bar
> > setup, specially if you ever hit a bump. Don't get
> me 
=== message truncated ===


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