[Shotimes] OT-94 Sable 3.8l head gasket replacement
John Phillis
jphillis68@hotmail.com
Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:29:40 -0500
ok, now you've gone and pissed me off.
look here.
I tried to explain in my original message that there was an additional
torque step over what was printed in the haynes, chilton, & helm manuals for
these cars. Why? because Ford recalled the torque specs.
I clearly stated this here:
...and it was NOT the headgaskets themselves that were recalled, but the
TORQUE SPECS were wrong, and all the mexicans were not tightening the heads
done correctly.
so, whatever the book says, in teh torque sequence, add another 90 degrees.
which is how Ford has it. to turn and additional 90 after 90.
so a total of 180.
now I also clearly stated that I didn't remember the exact torque procedure
offhand, but I did give a rough general idea, and then added that extra
torque step so the torque woudl not get screwed up.
but you picked through my email quoting passage by passage telling me that I
was wrong.
I am not wrong. and you are probably right, if you torqued it up to 75# and
then 180 degree it probably would snap off.
but I used 75 because I couldn't remember the exact spec offhand. it happens
when you do a ton of cars all the time.
you then stated that you turned teh bolt 90 degrees after you losened it up.
WRONG, dead wrong. there are torque steps after.
you losen the bolt, then you turn it to. dammit...
immer get the TSB book... tired of thsi shit
1 torque to 15#
2 " " 29#
3 " " 37#
4 looses each bolt in sequence 2-3 turns
5 Torque the long head bolts to 11-19#, then rotate the bolt 85 to 95
degrees rotation (1/4 turn). Go to next long bolt.
6 Torque the short head bolts to 7-15#, then rotate the bolt 85 to 95
degrees (1/4 turn).
7 Rotate each bolt an additional 85 to 95 degrees (1/4 turn).
ok, see, you tighten the bolts after loosening them with a torque wrench to
either 7-15 or 11-19. then 180 degrees.
so I was off on my guess by 55ft/lbs or so. that wasn't the point. the point
was ford recalled the procedure in the haynes book. the one you used.
and because you were busy disagreeing with me and picking apart my email
line by line like some godam genius someone out there might have mised this
important step and torque the bolts down to the old torque specs.
to make things worse. there are 2 different sets of torque specs, one for
89-95 and 96-97 for 96-7 step #5, torque long bolts to 29-37# instead of
11-19. so that value is over doubled.
the original question even concerning this was over torquing then loosening
the retorqueing. and the reason for it, is they are torque-to-yield bolts.
the reason that you do this is because it properly sstreaches the bolts out.
why? because with these bolts they won't back out of the hole like regular
bolts. with older engines, you have to tighten donw the head bolts, then run
the engine then tighten them back down again. don't have to with torque to
yield bolts. good thing to. it takes even a good mechanic at least an hour
just to get to the head bolts on a new car, let along tighten them down.
older cars, you remove 4 or 5, sometimes only 2 bolts per valve cover, and
there they were... took all of 15 mins to do the whole procedure.
but anyhow that wasn't my point. my point was simply to say that no, I am
not calling you a dumbass, and I didn't mean to hurt you with my comment.
I was simply tryin to illustrate in very few words that you were wrong.
rather than typing out all this. because this is a waste of time. next time,
I will simply say, don't argue with me, I knwo what I am doing, maybe that
will get my point across.
There was no need to do that to my email. and I don't appreciate it.
also I am glad to hear your sister's 3.8L is still running. it's a god damn
miracle. of course I saw many headgasket come off just fine wiht no
injuries, and they were tightened with those specs also.
merry christmas
From: "Gerald Harmon" <gharmon@knology.net>
To: "John Phillis" <jphillis68@hotmail.com>, <hamssho@nexicom.net>,
<shotimes@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shotimes] OT-94 Sable 3.8l head gasket replacement
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:58:09 -0500
>Glad you don't work on my cars.
Well since I'm such the dumbass why don't you tell us how to do it
correctly. I was going by the Haynes manual (not the best I know) so I lay
blame on them if I didn't do it right. How do you do the correct torque
sequence. BTW it was my first 3.8 job. As you've stated you were doing 4
a week. I can handle working of my cars just fine and I wouldn't care to
work on yours. I was doing my sister a favor. It is still running just
fine also.
If you detect some sarcasm you'd be correct. I didn't care for your little
berating little remark thank you very much. Someone asked a question I
tried to help best I could.
Gerald
>
>I used to do 4 of these a week minimum when they were recalled by ford...
>Ford lost a lot of money on this one, and as a result the techs were
shorted
>on W time. The fastest I could do a complete head gasket swap was 4.78
and
>I still have the time card to prove it.
>
>
>From: "Gerald Harmon" <gharmon@knology.net>
>To: "John Phillis" <jphillis68@hotmail.com>, <hamssho@nexicom.net>,
><shotimes@autox.team.net>
>Subject: Re: [Shotimes] OT-94 Sable 3.8l head gasket replacement
>Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 23:15:44 -0500
>
> >I think it is torque to 35, 55, 75, then loosen bolts one at a time, and
> >then retorque to 75(65) can't remember offhand, and then an additional
90
> >degrees. well, add 90, so make it 180 degrees.... and that shodl fix
> >that...
>
>No, after you loosen them is when you use go an additional 90 degrees. If
>you retighten them to 75 then you will never go another 180 degrees. I
was
>fuzzy on these instructions to begin with and tried that and I'm here to
>tell you I was very luck I didn't break the head bolt off in the block. I
>garuntee I was approaching 200ft-lbs when I just could not make myself go
>any further because I knew they were fixin to break.
>
> >you HAVE to buy new headbolts if they don't come with the headset. you
>HAVE
> >to.
>
>True.
>
> I don't care what anyone says, ABSOLUTELY.
> >why? because headbolts stretch out, hence the loosening retorquing
thing.
> >see, what you do, is you loosen the headbolts after straining them some,
> >then, you go to town on tehm, and they are less likely to stretch out
and
> >not hold the torque.
> >
> >we put a torque wrench on one jus tfor fun one time,a dnwe dialed it up
to
> >meet the final torque spec. you tighten it to 65(75) then 180 degrees
>past
> >that... it came out to well over 145 ft/lbs, which was the limit of the
> >torque wrench.
> >
>That is too much torque for those cheesy 11mm bolts.
>
>Gerald
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