[Shotimes] brakes funny after new pads - kinda long
Ron Porter
ronporter@prodigy.net
Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:35:45 -0400
Actually, in the old days he whole system was a single circuit, so starting
at the farthest point made sense. I don't believe the systems were ever
divided F&R, when the dual systems started (late '60s - early '70s??) they
always showed it as the one front - one rear split.
With the advent of the split systems, plus ABS thrown into the mix, it
doesn't seem to make any sense as to how you bleed them, as you are dealing
with basically two separate systems, anyway. I still prefer doing the rears
first, but that's more of a convenience issue for me.
Ron Porter
-----Original Message-----
From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of Steve Tatro
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 7:28 AM
To: 'Christian Andretta'; 'Ron DeReus'; 'Shotimes'
Subject: RE: [Shotimes] brakes funny after new pads - kinda long
Since the advent of dual safety master cylinders, the bleeding sequence
has changed. The early system simply divided the brakes into front and
rear.
The old standby bleeding method, that is bleeding the farthest brake
cylinder from the master cylinder first, and then working up to the
closest, is obsolete.
The safest bleeding procedure for these "new" cars is to follow the OEM
prescribed sequence. For the SHO, that's RR, LF, LR, RF.
Later,
Steve Tatro
Red/Black '93 with 168k miles
Cincinnati, Ohio
-----Original Message-----
From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Christian Andretta
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:10 AM
To: Ron DeReus; Shotimes
Subject: RE: [Shotimes] brakes funny after new pads - kinda long
I thought brakes should be bled RR, LR, RF, LF. Thinking about it
though it shouldn't matter because each caliper has its own brake line.
I just flushed my fluid using ATE Super Blue. The color feature is nice
because you can see when the fluid is fresh. From now on I'm going to
alternate with Super Blue and Valvoline Syntec Dot 4 or ATE Type 2000
(if I want to spend more money)
Chris A
99 SF
-----Original Message-----
From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron DeReus
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:57 AM
To: Shotimes
Subject: RE: [Shotimes] brakes funny after new pads - kinda long
Ok all - flushed with new ATE fluid, just over a liter, starting by
sucking out as much from the master cylinder as possible and refilling
with ATE. Bled (the lame way) starting with RR, then LF, then LR,
finally RF, per Chilton's and an old Don D. post. Fluid looked amber
the whole time, so not real sure if it got all flushed - don't know what
the PO had in for fluid, but looked the same. Didn't seem to be any air
in the lines. Car was not up on stands, so the bias valve should be ok
- not real sure what to look for, other than you couldn't really move it
with the suspension compressed.
Went for a test drive, and not sure if it's better. 2 panic stops from
60mph on pavement resulted in decent stopping distances I think, but no
ABS or lockup action. Went out on gravel and did 2 panic stops- ABS
worked perfectly. Went back to pavement, first of 3 panic stops the ABS
kicked in; the last 2 acted as before. I gave up and parked it for the
night.
The pedal does not go to the floor - once the pedal travels the 1/2 inch
or so until it starts braking, the pedal stiffens up, like no power
assist, and has done this the whole time since changing the pads.
Thoughts? TIA
Ron DeReus
95MTX
-----Original Message-----
From: Epperly [mailto:epperly1@optonline.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 4:34 PM
To: Ron DeReus
Subject: Re: [Shotimes] brakes funny after new pads - kinda long
Spongy brakes = air or moisture.
bleed them again.
Lee
Rebleed them and check the back bias valve to see if its stuck in the
open position.
Kirk J Doucette
I have a vacuum bleeder (that works off my compressor) ha I won at the
2000 SHO Convention. I have since bough a pressure bleeder that works
better
IMHO:
http://www.motiveproducts.com/
It doesn't flush the ABS, only the high $$$ dealer setup can do that. I
just go out to the dirt road that leads into my sub to get the abs
going.
Frankly, for a basic brake job (new pads & rotors) I have not have the
"ABS Function" help me at all when I re-bled the brakes after engaging
the ABS. Maybe if it has been 2+ years since you flushed the fluid it
would help, but I flush the fluid once a year or sooner, and the ABS
flush has never made a difference.
Ron Porter
The only way to get air in the abs system you would need to remove one
of its parts. The dealers use a breakout box which lets them run the
pump in the abs system for a minute to fully pressurize it. Then you
first start the car it runs the abs pump for 10 seconds to charge the
abs system. That charge does not go past the solenoid valves. I do not
think the abs is the problem but more likely there is air in the normal
system.
Ken
> Do parts stores loan out he vacuum and pressure bleeders? I bet they
would
> help get any air out of the ABS controller, too. The Chilton's
> mentioned some special code reader or something that would activate
> the parts of the ABS controller to flush out the air as you bled each
> wheel.
>
> I know some of you mentioned having this done at dealerships in the
> past with their special equipment - but neither one near me, nor
> Midas, seemed
to
> know about anything special to be done on ABS equipped vehicles.
>
> Ron D.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron Porter
> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 4:02 PM
> To: 'Ron DeReus'; 'Shotimes'
> Subject: RE: [Shotimes] brakes funny after new pads - kinda long
>
>
> It sounds like you need to bleed the brakes again. If you had the ABS
> kick in, you have had the new fluid run though the system.
>
> How are you bleeding the brakes? The "having a friend push the pedal"
method
> is the lamest way to go. A vacuum or pressure bleeder does the best
> job. The type of brake pad also matters, although the PFCM pads will
> give you a firm pedal (unlike cheap pads like Albanys)
>
> Ron Porter
The only resetting done by the abs system is after a problem is fixed (a
code) driving at a speed above 20 mph will reset the computer. from the
Helms.
Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]
> On Behalf Of Ron DeReus
> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 3:33 PM
> To: Shotimes
> Subject: [Shotimes] brakes funny after new pads - kinda long
>
>
> Ok, I got new PFCM pads installed on all 4 corners this week - 6014's
front
> and 6104's rear; found a couple frozen sliders I fixed, too. Surfaced
> all the rotors; none needed replaced, I'm guessing they're factory
> still.
Never
> cracked a bleeder - when compressing the caliper pistons, just let it
> go back to the master cylinder.
>
> Took it out for a drive, and it acts like I have no power assist now-
spongy
> until it the brakes start to work, but then I can stand on them for
> all
I'm
> worth and not get them to lock up OR get the ABS to kick in. I
> thought maybe they needed bedded in, so I did about four 60-0 stops
> until I
started
> to smell them, drove several miles back home to allow them to cool,
> and parked it for the night. But 3 days of normal driving later, they
> still don't seem right. I had some other guys at work drive it, and
> one of them did get the brakes to lockup, and he thinks the ABS
> computer needs reset, like a Bronco or something he used to have. How
> do I do this? I did try
to
> dump the normal computer while doing the brakes (battery out, pressed
> on
the
> brake pedal for a minute or so to dump the memory.)
>
> I have ATE brake fluid on the way from Raceshopper, so we will be
> flushing and bleeding the system this week if this is all I need.
>
> TIA
>
> Ron DeReus
> 95MTX
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