[Shotimes] Aftermarket KYB Struts?

Wed, 11 Jun 2003 18:24:29 -0400

I'll bet that if I hopped in it and drove it, it won't understeer as much as
you think.
I am not claiming to be a world-class track driver, but I put myself ahead
of a lot of other folks, and these cars don't understeer as much as you
think when driven properly.

I had gotten into big "urinating" matches with folks on the V8 list when I
had the '99 (They said that they needed big-ass rear bars to cut the
understeer), but my '99 with stock bars did fine. Many people are tired of
seeing this (!!), but go to my PictureTrail and look at the first pic at the
Tulsa Convention. It's me driving the '99 through the Carousel at Hallett,
with Tom Wallenhorst as the passenger. Look at the left-side tires on the
pavement, and you tell me if the car is understeering with the small stock
bars!!

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?username=rsporter

Ron Porter 

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Prochilo [mailto:gr8sho@prochilo.myserver.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 6:03 PM
To: Ron Porter; 'Don McKinnon (AST)'; shotimes@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Aftermarket KYB Struts?

And how weight transfer into the apex occurs as a function of braking.  Sure
these are valid points.  But perhaps on average there is some merit to the
bar chart (good pun, Ron!!).  I think for my casual street driving I have
too much understeer at the moment.  Maybe it's the 215s I'm using now.  I
still have to convince the AWA that I "NEED" new wheels for my toy.  <G>
Once I get those, I will continue the tuning exercise.

Carl

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron Porter" <ronporter@prodigy.net>
To: "'Don McKinnon (AST)'" <dmckinnon@asttechlabs.com>; "'Carl Prochilo'"
<gr8sho@prochilo.myserver.org>; <shotimes@autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 5:52 PM
Subject: RE: [Shotimes] Aftermarket KYB Struts?

I never agreed with John's comments on that bar chart. '93s & '94s came with
24/23 bars, and they are not horrible handling cars. I think too much of it
is driving style & ability.

Before I sold the '95 last week, I pulled out the 24/26 bars, the AL SFBs,
and the rear brake plugs.  Went back to the 20.6/21 bars, rubber SFBs, etc,
but kept the same 215/55/16 tires and I turned the front Konis from full
firm to full soft. I had the chance to hit my favorite constant-radius
off-ramp on I-75 with this stock setup. Yah know, absolute cornering power
did not feel that much slower.....if any at all. The car didn't feel as
direct and "planted", but I would be hard-pressed to say that the ultimate
performance was much worse.

I think tires are the BIGGEST determining factor.

All that other stuff (bigger bars, AL SFBs, etc) alter the feeling and
responsiveness, but I'll bet that for most of us of average driving skill &
ability, track times won't change with all of these go-fast suspension
parts.

Ron Porter

-----Original Message-----
From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of Don McKinnon (AST)
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 5:26 PM
To: Carl Prochilo; shotimes@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Shotimes] Aftermarket KYB Struts?

Those small bars makes for some good understeering, who cars about body roll
when it keeps going straight <LOL>!

remember this from John Hrinsin awhile back...
----------
...
24mm/23mm    1.34 you have got to be kidding

19mm/19mm     1.13     girlie mahn
20.6mm/21mm     1.04
22mm/23mm          .94

26mm/28mm         .84         safe predictable understeer
24mm/26mm         .82
19mm/21mm         .75
20.6mm/23mm      .72

24mm/28mm         .61         good overall balance
22mm/26mm         .58

19mm/23mm         .52        Gen III optimal

20.6mm/26mm      .44        on the tail happy side
22mm/28mm         .42

20.6mm/28mm      .33        sick oversteer
19mm/26mm         .32

19mm/28mm         .24         yeah, right

Sway bar bushings material, spring rates, strut type, settings and mounts,
degree of unibody stiffing, sub frame bushing material and differential
type all have an effect on the above. ..
-----

Don McKinnon

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Prochilo [mailto:gr8sho@prochilo.myserver.org]
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 4:57 PM
To: Don McKinnon (AST); shotimes@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Aftermarket KYB Struts?

Wow, 4mm sounds like a big difference.  It's hard for me to quantify it
though because the 95 has the VAPS that I had read so much about and now can
experience for myself.  The steering just feels altogether different.  It's
nice in one sense when doing ultra low speed maneuving, but it feels so
wimpy compared with my 92.  I suppose I could get used to it, but haven't
yet.  My son likes it better than my car, so that is a good thing (as
jailbird Martha says).

Carl

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don McKinnon (AST)" <dmckinnon@asttechlabs.com>
To: "Carl Prochilo" <gr8sho@prochilo.myserver.org>;
<shotimes@autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 4:42 PM
Subject: RE: [Shotimes] Aftermarket KYB Struts?

> No differences that I've seen.  My old 94 ATX and 95 MTX, along with 2
other
> 95's (ATX and MTX) I worked on had a 20.6mm front bar with a 21mm rear
bar.
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