[Shotimes] Aftermarket KYB Struts?
Carl Prochilo
gr8sho@prochilo.myserver.org
Wed, 11 Jun 2003 18:44:27 -0400
Nice.
I've only ever had one track session with my 92, so I'm not really qualified
to comment in that regard. My comments are solely limited to some of the
driving around here and having the car plow through turns. Sure it might be
the way I'm driving it, but nevertheless I feel it plow. Don Ds car and my
son's 95 don't do this. The former has a quaife and both cars have the fatter
tires. So the in the end I'm sure the tires ARE making the most difference
now.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Porter" <ronporter@prodigy.net>
To: "'Carl Prochilo'" <gr8sho@prochilo.myserver.org>; "'Don McKinnon (AST)'"
<dmckinnon@asttechlabs.com>; <shotimes@autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 6:24 PM
Subject: RE: [Shotimes] Aftermarket KYB Struts?
> I'll bet that if I hopped in it and drove it, it won't understeer as much as
> you think.
> I am not claiming to be a world-class track driver, but I put myself ahead
> of a lot of other folks, and these cars don't understeer as much as you
> think when driven properly.
>
> I had gotten into big "urinating" matches with folks on the V8 list when I
> had the '99 (They said that they needed big-ass rear bars to cut the
> understeer), but my '99 with stock bars did fine. Many people are tired of
> seeing this (!!), but go to my PictureTrail and look at the first pic at the
> Tulsa Convention. It's me driving the '99 through the Carousel at Hallett,
> with Tom Wallenhorst as the passenger. Look at the left-side tires on the
> pavement, and you tell me if the car is understeering with the small stock
> bars!!
>
> http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?username=rsporter
>
> Ron Porter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl Prochilo [mailto:gr8sho@prochilo.myserver.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 6:03 PM
> To: Ron Porter; 'Don McKinnon (AST)'; shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Aftermarket KYB Struts?
>
>
> And how weight transfer into the apex occurs as a function of braking. Sure
> these are valid points. But perhaps on average there is some merit to the
> bar chart (good pun, Ron!!). I think for my casual street driving I have
> too much understeer at the moment. Maybe it's the 215s I'm using now. I
> still have to convince the AWA that I "NEED" new wheels for my toy. <G>
> Once I get those, I will continue the tuning exercise.
>
> Carl
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Porter" <ronporter@prodigy.net>
> To: "'Don McKinnon (AST)'" <dmckinnon@asttechlabs.com>; "'Carl Prochilo'"
> <gr8sho@prochilo.myserver.org>; <shotimes@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 5:52 PM
> Subject: RE: [Shotimes] Aftermarket KYB Struts?
>
>
> I never agreed with John's comments on that bar chart. '93s & '94s came with
> 24/23 bars, and they are not horrible handling cars. I think too much of it
> is driving style & ability.
>
> Before I sold the '95 last week, I pulled out the 24/26 bars, the AL SFBs,
> and the rear brake plugs. Went back to the 20.6/21 bars, rubber SFBs, etc,
> but kept the same 215/55/16 tires and I turned the front Konis from full
> firm to full soft. I had the chance to hit my favorite constant-radius
> off-ramp on I-75 with this stock setup. Yah know, absolute cornering power
> did not feel that much slower.....if any at all. The car didn't feel as
> direct and "planted", but I would be hard-pressed to say that the ultimate
> performance was much worse.
>
> I think tires are the BIGGEST determining factor.
>
> All that other stuff (bigger bars, AL SFBs, etc) alter the feeling and
> responsiveness, but I'll bet that for most of us of average driving skill &
> ability, track times won't change with all of these go-fast suspension
> parts.
>
> Ron Porter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]
> On Behalf Of Don McKinnon (AST)
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 5:26 PM
> To: Carl Prochilo; shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [Shotimes] Aftermarket KYB Struts?
>
>
> Those small bars makes for some good understeering, who cars about body roll
> when it keeps going straight <LOL>!
>
> remember this from John Hrinsin awhile back...
> ----------
> ...
> 24mm/23mm 1.34 you have got to be kidding
>
> 19mm/19mm 1.13 girlie mahn
> 20.6mm/21mm 1.04
> 22mm/23mm .94
>
> 26mm/28mm .84 safe predictable understeer
> 24mm/26mm .82
> 19mm/21mm .75
> 20.6mm/23mm .72
>
> 24mm/28mm .61 good overall balance
> 22mm/26mm .58
>
> 19mm/23mm .52 Gen III optimal
>
> 20.6mm/26mm .44 on the tail happy side
> 22mm/28mm .42
>
> 20.6mm/28mm .33 sick oversteer
> 19mm/26mm .32
>
> 19mm/28mm .24 yeah, right
>
> Sway bar bushings material, spring rates, strut type, settings and mounts,
> degree of unibody stiffing, sub frame bushing material and differential
> type all have an effect on the above. ..
> -----
>
> Don McKinnon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl Prochilo [mailto:gr8sho@prochilo.myserver.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 4:57 PM
> To: Don McKinnon (AST); shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Aftermarket KYB Struts?
>
>
> Wow, 4mm sounds like a big difference. It's hard for me to quantify it
> though because the 95 has the VAPS that I had read so much about and now can
> experience for myself. The steering just feels altogether different. It's
> nice in one sense when doing ultra low speed maneuving, but it feels so
> wimpy compared with my 92. I suppose I could get used to it, but haven't
> yet. My son likes it better than my car, so that is a good thing (as
> jailbird Martha says).
>
> Carl
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don McKinnon (AST)" <dmckinnon@asttechlabs.com>
> To: "Carl Prochilo" <gr8sho@prochilo.myserver.org>;
> <shotimes@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 4:42 PM
> Subject: RE: [Shotimes] Aftermarket KYB Struts?
>
>
> > No differences that I've seen. My old 94 ATX and 95 MTX, along with 2
> other
> > 95's (ATX and MTX) I worked on had a 20.6mm front bar with a 21mm rear
> bar.
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